What's a GOOD color, low cost, flat panel TV ...reliably work for a while?

Yep, Panasonic is usually good. But you have to keep the glasses on. There was a counterfeit brand that looked deceptively similar, except that the brand was "Panasonc". Probably from Uncle Chen's electrolytics kitchen. Another problem is the tendency of SMPS designers to max out their parts to the hilt. If a datasheet says 1.9A ripple they may use it at 1.85A and 90% of rated voltage. Then one sunny day .. *PHUT* ... gone. I've had situations like that where it was next to impossible to obtain a cap with some better margins in the same form factor. I had to mount a larger one off-board which is always a white-knckle ride with switchers. Sadly, I have seen this trend also with seasoned SPMS designers.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg
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Dunno. Search engines are your friend. I've usually just "inspected" whatever it is that I am working on (e.g., many products don't have service manuals readily available) and made educated guesses as to what (beyond the obviously failed) is likely to fail in the future.

Yes. I tend to use the TV for background noise, "late night company", etc. Esp if I already know the movie/program that's "on". Just monitor the audio semiconsciously...

Is there a noticeable difference between 1 and 100? I.e., is there a wide *range* of volumes or is it a very narrow range?

If the audio is completely integrated, then you probably don't have much choice, here. OTOH, if there is a line level output

*inside* the set that gets routed to a separate amplifier, you could possibly add a pad between the two, alter the values of a voltage divider, etc. (half of the divider may, in fact, be missing/open so you see much higher levels into the amp than intended!)

What if you hang an external audio amp (e.g., the AUX input on a "stereo") on the line out (if you have one). Does it behave better?

It's called dynamic range. You are supposed to LIKE this! :-/ Invest in a (external) compressor? :<

DTV will prove to be the biggest screw up of the 21st century! :< Audio/video sync problems, dropouts/pixelation, etc.

I point to the towers just up the hill from us and ask folks to explain why *this* channel comes in, but *that* one doesn't, etc. (No, I'm not interested in technical explanations. Rather, thinking of how Joe AverageViewer tries to make sense of it all)

At least with analog TV, you could understand that distant signals

*tended* to have more snow, etc. (all else being equal).

I think that will be a tough one for you to evaluate -- esp if you don't intend to add supplemental speakers, amplification, etc. Most of the flat screen TVs don't have much volume to set aside for sound reproduction. You want to be able to move lots of *air* and that's hard without a large diaphragm. And, even acoustic suspension speakers (drivers) want *some* air mass behind them to support the cone.

[Old CRT TVs usually had gobs of empty space in their chassis so they could put a decent speaker (or three) in the cabinet]

Neighbor went through three TVs because she didn't like the sound.

I think a big problem lies in how you preview these devices in today's retail outlets. So much ambient noise that they've got to crank the sound up on the TV just to hear it. And, hope someone isn't listening to the set next to this one!

It may be smart to shop around for the right *previewing* environment. Maybe a smaller store or one with less foot traffic. Or, some "low traffic" time of day so you can have an environment closer to what you will encounter at home (unless, of course, you are accustomed to large crowds milling around in your living room while you watch TV! :> )

And, maybe put "return policy" high on your list of vendor selection criteria?

Reply to
Don Y

It should be possible to find the culprit using a heat gun or hair dryer. Afterwards it might be good to also change the other large electrolytics of same make because it could be only a matter of time until they also go.

Recalcitrant start-up can also have another reason. Unlikely in this case but good to remember when that happens on PCs and the like: Flybacks and other primary side switchers usually have a trickle circuit. A resistor of 100k or so charges a cap and when that has reached a certain voltage the circuit starts up. It has to start within a certain time and begin to feed itself from a helper winding, else the little reservoir cap is depleted below the lower hystersis value of the switcher chip and it starts all over again. This can result either in no operation of the device at all or it "chugs and chokes". Sometimes this resistor has become high-Z, sometimes the reservoir cap is toast.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

JT > We have a 55" JVC. Great picture, but JT > cantankerous when dealing with HDMI JT > inputs that don't conform to the JT > HDMI CEC specification. Jim, lots of these newer TV sets have software updates available VIA the makers website. Typically you download the update and place it on a flash drive, then plug the flash drive into the TV and hit some combination of settings and it loads into the TV. It's a bit like updating the BIOS on some computer systems. Try looking on the makers site for software updates for your exact model of TV.

Reply to
Greegor

That was I. However, note that Panasonic is apparently getting out of the consumer business, particularly consumer level TVs. They're not competing against the Koreans and Chinese, rather attempting to move upscale.

I refuse to buy anything Sony. The rootkits were the last straw.

Reply to
krw

Counters are the wrong way to do it, just measure the wound radius of both spools. (hint: use the tape to measure the circumference)

--
?? 100% natural 

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply to
Jasen Betts

We're talking about 1980 technology (actually, other manufacturers had "time display" counters... you weren't buying a "tape counter display if you bought a Dragon :-/ ).

I've actually never used a tape counter for anything other than "returning to a certain point" (0000).

Reply to
Don Y

Back in the days before DTV, they did some experiments with different formats on several displays setup. They had different resolutions, dot pitches, sizes, etc. They then asked folks which displays they liked better. What factor was most important in display appreciation?

The sound quality!

;-)

Reply to
Charlie E.

Then you get older and are more concerned with how visible the SUBTITLES are! :-/

(Given the prevalence of the audio/video sync problems, it's almost easier to *read* the dialogue -- and avoid noticing the annoying "lips moving without sound coming out" issue!)

I wonder if there is an easy way to resync the audio and video (at least in recorded material?)

Reply to
Don Y

Auto Lip Sync is suppose to be automatic with HDMI 1.3 and above. However, if the original broadcast is screwed up, it stays that way.

There are various lip sync correction boxes ranging from crude: to less crude: If you're recording, VLC has built in lip sync correction:

Somewhere in my collection of old books on "radio physics" is the story of how the original 1936 RMA/NTSC video standard was contrived. The major issues were occupied RF bandwidth versus number of lines. Various configurations were tested based upon how far away from the then tiny 9(?) inch round screen could the picture be viewed comfortably. The winning compromise was the 525 line, interlaced, 30 fps, and 6 MHz standard. With todays monstrously large screen LCD displays, the issue is not how far away one can see the screen, but how close one can get.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I remember when LG were 1st at Comdex to offer huge wide screen LCD's for t en grand.

It all depends how many people need to watch TV. If myself, I prefer the l ow noise, high contrast, high dpi, accurate colour of a good PC monitor.

My LG 25" 96 dpi 1080p looks much better at arm's length than my 43" LCD a t any distance. the LG has had 170deg viewing angle and low reflectance glass coating.

Techy Stuff... If you ever experience dead pixels , they may be intermittent charge trap issues which can be erased with charge cycles of alternating contrast and c olours using a free windows program called DPT.exe. I use it to tweak the g amma error, which is often the poorest feature and never spec'd in monitor s. Gamma error is responsible for the color errors at different brightness lev els as the LCD is not a perfect linear display. It controls the curve of sa turation vs intensity for each colour so the gary scale is perfect white to the eye at all levels of luminance from black to white. The standby mode of TVs and LCD's often causes bad pixels which can be corrected with many p ower cycles or simply use DPT in the zone with the bad pixel. Fortunately these flaws are much less frequent and shorted transistors won't e fixed wi th this , just marginal trapped charge leakage issues that cause stuck pixe ls On.

Also consider that unless your theatre is pitch black... 2million:1 contras t ratio is lost with >>1% reflectance of clear glass TV's with the room lig hts still on.

... although frosted glass anti-reflective glass is cheap and reduces room lighting reflectance it adds diffusion or blur to small fonts on hi-res, o ptical anti-reflective coatings are best, like those used in camera lenses but too expensive for big screens but not so for smaller 25" LCDs.

Depends on your budget but, I don't use Netflix and get all my media from O TA HD antenna with HomeRun digital tuner on router and Ice Fils addon to XB MC For DVD quality.

I can get same quality on my VGA at 1080p as HDMI with DPT.exe tuning to vi deo card controls toTV with a good cable.

Reply to
Anthony Stewart

I was thinking of something for "post processing". E.g., just a piece of software.

Imagine previewing an existing "video" in something like Premiere, Pinnacle/Avid, etc. Identifying some "percussive" video event in the video stream. Finding the corresponding percussive audio event in the audio stream. Tagging them "together". Then, moving on to other points in the two streams and repeating the exercise.

Once done (and previewed), let the software tweek the REsampling rates so the audio and video events "line up" -- distributing any error gradually, over time (or not, depending on the nature of the sync failure).

I.e., all of the "time" required to do this would be user-bound (how long it takes to find suitable synchronization events in the two streams) -- the actual "rerecording" would happen at CPU speed.

Yup. Even with upsampling.

But this was also true of large CRT's At some point, the "illusion" of a continuous color/intensity surface falls apart.

Many (many!) years ago, Sony (?) had a display built out of umpteen bajillion small "CRT's". Each had three large rectangular phosphors painted on it -- just like a greatly enlarged version of their trinitron mask. These were arranged side-by-side, row-by-row to build up a large "display". Which was then driven AS IF a monolithic display.

"Up close" (i.e., 20 ft away), it just looked like lots of large green, red, etc. blobs. Just like a trinitron CRT does, "up close" (i.e., a few inches away) :>

Reply to
Don Y

Most monitors aren't "calibrated" for accurate color reproduction (I use a Spyder Tm when proofing for publication. Similarly, calibrate the printers and scanners).

I *loathe* doing anything other than "work" on a "PC". E.g., reading anything of length usually requires me to print (paper) the material and then take it elsewhere to read. "TV" (videos) I'd prefer to watch sitting comfortably on the floor instead of "bolt upright" in my desk chair.

Most of our video is consumed from DVD's retrieved from the local public library. The balance from (typically live) OTA broadcasts.

*Nothing* from "internet sources"
Reply to
Don Y

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

An A/V amp I was working with this morning actually has the ability to add a delay to the sound to allow for delays in the signal processing of the video...

Reply to
Charlie E.

I'd have to start being more observant to see if the delay is constant and present *throughout* the presentation; if it creeps in gradually; or if some "event" causes the delay to be introduced.

I just can't imagine how this can happen. I.e., "since the beginning", film has used, e.g., clapperboards to address the audio/video sync issue ("percussive event"). Suddenly, withthe advent of digital coding, they decide to FORGET all of this history???

Reply to
Don Y

Shouldn't need clapers and such now with powerful software and huge quantites of memory. just do some image processing and correlate to sound entropy.

Where do you get the 'Spyder' color qualifier? How much?

Reply to
RobertMacy

How does software know what "visual activities" correspond with sounds? :<

Long time ago -- I doubt *it* is still manufactured (though probably other similar devices now exist -- with accompanying software).

At the time, (~10 years ago?) IIRC, about $300-400.

Reply to
Don Y

Long time ago?! Ten years ago is YESTERDAY! I have clothes older than you.

so doing a search for IIRC, I found a Korean Research Institute, Impedance Institute Color Research, so thought they made your meter. ...until wiki points out that iirc is an acronym for internet abbreviations!

can't find anything, but then again, I never could. I always ask Jeff Liebermann, and somehow he does 'magic' searches. Finds EVERYTHING! for example the free pixel recovery software website.

Right now leaning toward LG for its technical 'depth' plus made in Korea, products made there I tend to trust a bit.

Reply to
RobertMacy
[attrs elided]

For electronics -- esp PC-related -- it's the Stone Age! :>

Dunno. I remember where I was when JFK was shot, when the NBC peacock got colored plumage, etc. ;-)

Yes, sorry. If I Recall Correctly.

formatting link

Article is dated 2001? So, I'm in the right ballpark.

Basically, it's just a large/diffuse "photocell" that sits against the display (there are some mechanical changes that you make to the sensor depending on whether you are using it with a CRT or an LCD).

"Calibration software" then draws a big square (on which you position the detector). Displays solid red for a while (10-15 seconds) while it integrates light output striking the sensor. Then blue. White, etc. Thereafter, uses these observations to tweek the drive to the display for your application(s).

Without it (or something like it), you have to rely on proofs from the "printer" (i.e., the print *shop*) to see what the actual colors look like.

Printing "proofs" on your own color printer would require your color printer to have known/calibrated characteristics. Scanning photos to be included in print productions requires your *scanner* to be "color corrected", etc.

I.e., for anything but a casual "neighborhood newsletter", you have to take extra steps to ensure what you see *is* what you get!

As with everything, you can "get lucky" or "get screwed" -- regardless of vendor, model, etc.

Find something (TV) that "fits your eyes" (and ears) and ignore all the "technical reviews". I also distrust the "user reviews" -- a bunch of generic Joe User's are going to give *me* advice? How do I know what their qualifications, critical skills, etc. are??

I've also been unable to conclude whether comments tend to be biased in favor or against (i.e., do more "happy customers" leave comments? or, just the ones who are sufficiently pissed off??)

We were lamenting how hard it was to find "good help" (around the house), here. He (& wife) made an exuberant recommendation (which startled us). No less than 10 minutes later, they were recounting some of the screw ups THE FOLKS THEY HAD RECOMMENDED had made.

"WTF? You are *recommending* these people to me after all these problems you experienced FIRST HAND?? Are you even LISTENING to yourself??"

Reply to
Don Y

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