Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change

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"Our research, recently published in Nature Climate Change, describes a ser
ies of sudden and catastrophic ecosystem shifts that have occurred recently
 across Australia.

These changes, caused by the combined stress of gradual climate change and  
extreme weather events, are overwhelming ecosystems? natural resili
ence."

This is only going to get worse, and rapidly.  

Western U.S. is much worse but the ecosystems are being replaced by nothing
ness, except excess heat, so no one really cares just yet.

https://theconversation.com/ecosystems-across-australia-are-collapsing-unde
r-climate-change-99367

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 2018/07/05 4:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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 series of sudden and catastrophic ecosystem shifts that have occurred re
cently across Australia.
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and extreme weather events, are overwhelming ecosystems? natural  
resilience."
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hingness, except excess heat, so no one really cares just yet.
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under-climate-change-99367
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The history of weather in Australia is just over 200 years old with the  
early settlements starting in 1788. How on earth can they say what is  
normal for AU with only 200 years of records and about 100 years of good  

records? Wetter than usual in the north for the past 100 years? Relative  

to what, the previous 100 years?

Your amazingly valiant 1st nations folks barely could survive and never  
were able to stay at the crop growing level, constantly being driven  
back to subsistence level survival whenever the climate went from bad to  

worse. You have had 200 years of reasonably nice weather since the end  
of the LIA, what is happening now is perhaps more likely the norm than  
you hope...any research published on climate in Australia prior to 1500AD
?

All the Chicken Littles are coming out.

John


Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 06-Jul-18 8:32 AM, John Robertson wrote:
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Is it normal that the fish  population has fallen dramatically, same  
with sea birds. Our bees are almost nonexistent.

I've seen this happen over the last 40 years.

Is it normal for these changes to happen over a 40 year period? I'm no  
ecologist but I suspect it's not normal or a natural progression.


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Perhaps you need to look a little wider.

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Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change

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Animal populations are chaotic. Some of the early chaos theory work
dealt with weather and animal populations.

One thing that's new is the vast increase in observers and sensors
lately. It's easy to see anomalies and set records when you have 50x
more sensors than 100 years ago.


--  

John Larkin   Highland Technology, Inc   trk

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
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Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 10:57:29 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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e  
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ral  
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0AD?
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It's never been hard to set records.  I think I wrote about this before.  I
n any given location there are 365 opportunities each year to set a record  
for high and low temperatures, rain fall in a variety of categories (per ho
ur, day week, etc), wind speed, etc.  There are only roughly 200 years of r
ecords.  So what are the odds that you *won't* set some sort of record in a
 year at any given location?  

Weather records happen...

Rick C.

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 07/05/2018 11:06 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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A single record temperature in isolation is meaningless; it's the number  
of occurrences of them that matter. Comparing the number of record  
occurrences this year, A, now when you have B sensors to measure them,  
to the amount C(t) in the past when you had B - D(t) sensors, to  
estimate to some confidence interval of whether the actual number  
increased in a situation where you hypothetically had B sensors for the  
entire time period to measure with, is not an apples to oranges  
comparison it's a statistical problem that's been solved for 100 years  
probably.





Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 07/05/2018 08:32 PM, John Robertson wrote:
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You compare atmospheric content samples from deep ice cores that go back  
several million years and compare with what's happening in the  
geologic/fossil record in the place you're interested in, it records a  
lot of interesting stuff beyond just old bones, enough to give a pretty  
accurate quantitative and qualitative reconstruction of what the place  
in that time period would've looked and felt like could you visit it.

If the average atmospheric gas content is X ppm of this, Y of that, etc.  
in 1 million BC and the climate in the place you're interested in is  
like Z in 1 million BC then it stands to reason that if X and Y occur  
again it will look a lot like Z again.

That's an assumption of course but you always have to make some  
assumptions to do any kind of science. It doesn't necessarily have to  
play out that way. Maybe it's all run by magic, maybe God did it, who knows.

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 07/05/2018 08:32 PM, John Robertson wrote:
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Basically the answer is yes, Nature herself kept a record.

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Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change

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(snip)
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Core samples taken about a decade ago in Greenland through the ice
showed the remains of a temperate forest.  Maybe it will return to
that one day ...

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 6:28:22 AM UTC-4, pedro wrote:
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The clue is in the name, green-land, should be a hint.

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change

com:
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the name has nothing to do with being green

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 8:08:57 AM UTC-4, Lasse Langwadt Christensen w
rote:

l.com:
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It most certainly does. The place was green when first settled. https://en.
wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland#Norse_settlement

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 8:20:33 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wro
te:
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 wrote:

ail.com:
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n.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland#Norse_settlement



fect as a marketing device."

"He named the land Greenland, saying that people would be eager to go there
 if it had a good name."[8]

Sounds to me like it was about the same as today.  

Rick C.

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 07/07/2018 06:28 AM, pedro wrote:
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I'm not sure if the records are from this long ago but during the late  
Eocene around 30m years ago there was little to no ice at the poles, and  
there were temperate forests as far north as 70 degrees latitude in the  
area of what's now Baffin Island, where it was dark 18 hours a day  
during the winter. Small proto-monkey primates like Notharctus
probably lived there.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notharctus

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 2018/07/07 3:28 AM, pedro wrote:
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A little over a thousand years ago there were forests where at least one  
glacier currently exists, the trees are being exposed as the ice melts.  
How long and how warm does it have to be to grow a forest, eh?

We are coming out of a Little Ice Age folks returning to the temperature  
and weather of the MWP.

https://weather.com/science/environment/news/melting-glacier-exposes-frozen-forest-20130924

https://frontierscientists.com/2013/09/forest-revealed-under-glacial-ice/

https://sciencing.com/ecological-succession-glaciers-22745.html

The last quote in the following article is interesting...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/glaciers-retreat-they-give-mummies-and-artifacts-they-swallowed-180955399/

John

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 07/07/2018 12:22 PM, John Robertson wrote:
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If you mean "returning" by "we're making it happen by pumping 40 billion  
tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year" like saying an alcoholic is  
"returning" to his "natural state" of being habitually drunk. gosh how  
did it happen. who knows. It's just an unpredictable disease.

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
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What do you think it is saying?  He was talking about epidemics from uncovering frozen bodies.  It goes on to say that certainly more bodies will be uncovered, just not epidemics.  

Rick C.  

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On 2018/07/07 11:04 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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ne
.
re
rozen-forest-20130924
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ce/
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ummies-and-artifacts-they-swallowed-180955399/
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covering frozen bodies.  It goes on to say that certainly more bodies wil
l be uncovered, just not epidemics.
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We have always had epidemics.

?No one feels there?s a serious chance that global warmin
g will melt the  
permafrost and unleash an epidemic,? he told Manaugh. But melting
  
glaciers certainly will unleash more bodies and artifacts.

John


Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 5:52:33 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:
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ne
.
re
rozen-forest-20130924
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ce/
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ummies-and-artifacts-they-swallowed-180955399/
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covering frozen bodies.  It goes on to say that certainly more bodies will  
be uncovered, just not epidemics.
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g will melt the  
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I can't argue that epidemics don't happen.  But I'm not clear on your point
.  You do understand people are concerned that digging up bodies of people  
who died from epidemics will cause a new epidemic, right?  That's what is b
eing discussed.  

Rick C.  

Re: Ecosystems across Australia are collapsing under climate change
On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 7:59:24 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrot
e:
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 one
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ts.
ture
-frozen-forest-20130924
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-ice/
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-mummies-and-artifacts-they-swallowed-180955399/
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uncovering frozen bodies.  It goes on to say that certainly more bodies wil
l be uncovered, just not epidemics.
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ing will melt the  
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ng  
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nt.  You do understand people are concerned that digging up bodies of peopl
e who died from epidemics will cause a new epidemic, right?  That's what is
 being discussed.  
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No instance of a frozen viable virus being found, and there were multiple a
ttempts to rejuvenate 1918 flu virus from frozen people known to be victims
. There have been bacterial infections but modern medicine can handle those
 quite well. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/01/24/575974220
/are-there-zombie-viruses-in-the-thawing-permafrost

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