Duracell alkalines leaking?

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Recently I had a bit much in such cases, AA cells leaking and destroying  
a device, now D-cells. Some had leaked just sitting in a drawer at room  
temperature. Best-before dates were around 2023-2025, so no aging out. I  
think they are called Copper-Top and have black wrappers with the upper  
1/3rd copper-color.

Duracell was friendly, courteous and re-imbursed me for losses where  
stuff was damaged but they could not tell me if there were production  
lots that had issues. My concern is potential leakage in more expensive  
equipment where their warranty might cap reimbursement (not sure where  
such a cap would be).

Does anyone know more? Can you suggest another brand with less leakage risk?

--  
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
wrote:

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No.  Here's some genuine Costco Kirkland AAA alkaline cells that
leaked in the partly unopened package (right side):
<
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg


For saving alkalines, I don't have an answer.  I wrap them in
cellophane wrap and absorbent towel paper in the vain hope that I
might contain the damage from leaking electrolyte.  I just lost two
LED head-lights and an emergency weather radio to a variety of
alkaline battery brands.  All had the contacts and PCB rotted by the
leaking electrolyte.  Earlier this year, I lost two Maglites, that
were not repairable because the cells could not be extracted (without
a big drill).

My best fix is switching to NiMH.  They leak less.  Most have self
discharge problems.  The Eneloop variety do NOT have self discharge
problems, but cost far more than alkaline.  

For devices that will take LiIon, I've machined a few adapters.  That
seems to work best for me.  The 14500 LiIon cells are the same size as
AA alkaline batteries, but at 3.7V instead of 1.5V.  My adaptations
works, but I have to be rather careful where I install the AA shorting
cells.

Good luck.
--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?

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I have yet to run into run into any leakage from the AA lithium
primary cells I've bought (mostly the Energizer Ultimate family).

Their starting voltage is somewhat higher than an alkaline, and I've
heard that some devices are unhappy with that.  No self-discharge
problems I'm aware of - their shelf life is about as long as alkaline,
I think.  They're not cheap per-piece, but I believe they work out to
roughly the same cost-per-amp-hour as alkalines in the long run.

They're what I load up my wife's camera with, when she goes on
vacation... she'll get days of heavy photo shooting, at a rate which
would quickly kill alkalines.

I've started buying them in bulk, which does help bring the price down
somewhat.

I do like Eneloop and similar low-self-discharge NiMH for many
applications... quite economical in the long run.

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 5:31:10 PM UTC-5, Dave Platt wrote:
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Huh, I've got a camera at work that eats AA's.  I'll try some lithium.

George H.  
  

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?

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Common problem.  Digital cameras tend to be murder on alkalines.

I looked at the spec sheet for the Energizer Max AA alkalines, and
wasn't surprised to see two things therein:

(1) Energizer says these batteries are recommended for low and medium
    levels of current drain, up to and including "photo-flash".  They
    are not recommended for digital cameras, which are at the top of
    the current-demand list.

(2) Their rated capacity falls off very badly at high discharge
    rates.  Pull 25 mA continuously and you get around 2800 mAh
    before they drop to 0.8 volts.  Pull 500 mA from them, and you get
    about half that much.





Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On 2017-11-29 18:05, Dave Platt wrote:
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Same problem in my old Nikon Coolpix. I found that regular NiMH last  
longest, followed by Eneloop-NiMH which last a little less but which I  
now use because then the camera batteries aren't self-discharging much.

--  
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
A friend found some NIZN batteries that have a higher per-cell
voltage than NiMH ones; so they work in his recording
microphones.  He likes them.

You do need to find a charger that works on each cell
individually, vs 2 in series.  

--  
A host is a host from coast to snipped-for-privacy@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 22:31:10 UTC, Dave Platt  wrote:
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I don't know where you get your eneloops, but here one NiMH is a tiny fraction of the cost of the 500 alkalines it replaces.  


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why pay so much?


NT

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On 11/29/2017 11:32 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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I had the same problem.  I took a saw to the aluminum case and was able
to get part of one battery to show that was a Duracell and sent them
the photo.  They replaced
the light, no questions asked.
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Big problem is that many devices won't take NiMH.  Things like power
monitors and remote temperature displays show "dead battery" warning.
They run for a few days  then  stop working.
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How do you deal with overdischarge?  I have a flashlight that runs
happily down to 0.7V.
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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 8:21:03 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
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Most protected LiIon cells have low-voltage cut-outs.  Those would save
the cell, but might leave you suddenly in the dark.

Years ago many LiIon cell controllers would latch in the "disconnect"
state.  Dunno if that's still the case.  I'd just override them by
charging the cell gently, directly, until the UVLO reset.

Cheers,
James Arthur


Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On 11/29/2017 6:10 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:
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Good to hear from someone who knows what he's doing and can advise.
What's your personal brand/model selection for a protected 14500 that...

Actually has a under voltage protection and not just  PTC
short protection.

Isn't 52.5mm long and will fit in the battery holder without busting it.

Doesn't have multiple layers of thick shrink wrap so the diameter is small
enough to fit in devices that have a 'tube' construction, like a flashlight.

Has a positive nub that's long enough and small enough diameter
to get past the plastic bumper they put
in the device to inhibit cell reversal.

Has a reasonable capacity specification at currents you're likely
to want.

Doesn't have "fire" anywhere in the brand name.  All the *fire cells
I have weigh considerably less than real cells, have a capacity
that's well below a 'normal' capacity spec and not anywhere near
their 'overstated' capacity.

Comes from a reliable vendor so you can evaluate one, then get more
with expectation that it will be the same design.

What's your favorite cell?

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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 2:19:41 AM UTC-5, mike wrote:
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My favorite cell for digital cameras was the nickel-zinc cell that flopped
a few years ago.

Rechargeable, 1.6V per cell, NiMH-like impedance.  I only got about
25 cycles from them, but that was more than enough to make them a
bargain compared to alkalines.  As a bonus, digital cameras would actually
run off the darn things, too.

I have no idea about all of today's many brands of LiIon 14500's.  ISTM
that fitting a 3.6V cell into an alkaline's spot is inherently hazardous,
so I prefer NiMH.  But, if you really want to, the flashlight afficianados
over at Candlepowerforums.com would have all the latest.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:10:30 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com
wrote:

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They can be reset.  How it works with the parts dissected:
"0v 18650 - How the CID works"
<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3Tv1Jg0ps&t46%s



--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 12:00:50 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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Thanks Jeff, I hadn't heard of the CID before.

I had some cells whose electronic over-discharge protection had
latched the cells in the disconnected state.  Reaching around the
circuit boards and charging the cells directly reset them back to
normal operation.

After that, I discovered I could do the same thing without opening the
cell by going through the body diode of the protection MOSFET. Carefully
upping the charge voltage by a diode's worth, then charging at ~3mA until
the protection circuit reset did the trick.  The circuit would reset when
the cell inside hit ~3.2V, IIRC, then was ready for normal service.

Cheers,
James Arthur

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?

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If that's the case, then there's something wrong with device.  NiMH
cells operate from 1.5v down to 0.8V.  Alkalines from 1.5 down to
1.0v.  Nominal voltages at the middle of the discharge curves are both
about 1.3v.  If the deice claims that the battery is dead somewhere
between 1.3v and 1.0v, then the device was made to sell replacement
batteries.

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I don't charge replaceable cells inside the device.  If the device has
a built in charger, I use an external charger designed for LiIon.  It
might seem like a bit too much effort, but in reality, I replace cells
with my collection of spare LiIon cells that are charged and ready to
go.  I then charge the depleted cells at my leisure.

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If you're running a LiIon cell at that low a voltage (anything under
about 2.6V), you might be damaging the cell.  The flashlight might be
able to operated at 0.7V from bench power supply, but I question
whether a LiIon cell will power it.  Notice where 0.7V is located on a
typical LiIon discharge curve:
<
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/LiPo/Ultrafire%20LiPo%203000%20ma-hr%2018650.jpg


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 18:49:07 UTC, Joerg  wrote:
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All alkalines risk leakage. Use NiMH. They do too but far less often.


NT

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
Joerg wrote on 11/29/2017 1:49 PM:
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Alkaline batteries leak... not very often, but they leak.  Battery leakage  
destroying equipment is a pretty big reputation killer, so it would be well  
worth it to make batteries so they didn't leak.  If they could make them so  
they didn't leak, don't you think they would?

Best to use alkaline batteries with the full knowledge that they can leak.  
Anyone designing expensive equipment should design the equipment  
accordingly.  If they don't, they are designing crap.

--  

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:18:21 -0500, rickman wrote:

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I grew up on carbon-zinc batteries that leaked like sieve. When the  
alkalines came out I had a very good run with them, until recently, when  
I had several leak, including new ones that were just sitting in unused  
equipment. Did the formulation change recently? Outsourced overseas? I'd  
like to know...

Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 03:18:54 -0000 (UTC), Przemek Klosowski

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The last change that I know about was the elimination of mercury in
alkaline cells in 1993.  Mercury is used to absorb any hydrogen gas
produced inside the cell.
<http://www.zeromercury.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id13%7&Itemid54%

--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: Duracell alkalines leaking?
wrote:

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A bit more on whatever manufactories are using as a substitute for
mercury in alkaline cells.  The basic problem is how to get rid of the
hydrogen gas produced by zinc corrosion that pushes the electrolyte
out the valve.

Duracell's Aarschot plant in Belgium making alkaline AA batteries:
<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8laRePW618

At 3:09, the machine adds "secret performance enhancers" to the zinc.

I suspected that suitable mercury substitutes had been patented:
<https://patents.google.com/?q=mercury&q=substitute&q=alkaline&q=battery

"Alkaline battery"
<https://patents.google.com/patent/US5376480A/
"...an oxide or hydroxide of indium, lead, gallium, bismuth."

"Alkaline battery, manufacture thereof, and appliance using alkaline
battery"
<https://patents.google.com/patent/JPH076759A/
"An inhibitor selected from an indium compound, lead oxide, a
hydroxide of alkali earth metal, and polyoxyethylene alkylamide is
added to an electrolyte or a negative active material. Hydrogen gas
evolution is retarded and deterioration in performance is prevented."

"Alkaline battery without mercury and electronic apparatus powered
thereby"
<https://patents.google.com/patent/US6723469B1/
"the negative electrode contains one or more indium compounds selected
from the group consisting of indium sulfate, indium sulfamate and
indium chloride."
This patent has a good but rather lengthy description of the problem,
alternatives, and solutions.

My guess(tm) is that indium sulfate, sulfamate, or chloride might be
the "secret performance enhancers".


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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