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Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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No, you're missing the entire point that I was making. I'm saying that
the scientists have got the message across. The message has been heard.
Earth Hour is not needed to push the message.

Instead of Earth Hour, there should be a "I'm willing to pay to reduce
CO2" hour, with people handing over hard cash.

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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**Then we need to (all of us) come out hard and strong, whenever the
religious zealots (Abbott, Fielding, Simpson, et al) when they start
ignoring the science and promote their own religious idealogy instead. The
vast unwashed do not unstand the science and they need to realise that this
is a really big deal. We also (all of us) need to remind Kevin Rudd of his
promise to introduce an ETS without delay. I trust that you will be adopting
this approach in future. I've written to my local member (Liberal) asking
him what his position is and how he can justify Tony Abbott's insane ideas.
I've yet to receive a response.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:45:56 +1100, Sylvia Else

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Theres no evidence at all that the people want to hand over money
to reduce CO2.
All Ive ever seen from opinion polls is that the people want the Govt
to do something to combat climate change, but the something is not
defined.
Taxing CO2 emissions is the Govts idea, not the populations.
Pretty obvious from 6 failed Climate change conferences so far, that
the will to reduce CO2 emissions by taxing it simply isnt there.
Time to start looking at alternatives, like building Nuclear Power
plants, and closing down Coal plants.
Zero chance of this happening though.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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I agree entirely, except for the very few who've elected to pay a
premium for "green" sourced power.

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Yes, for some bizarre reason, the Government assumed that the evident
desire of the electorate for action to reduce CO2 emissions was
accompanied by a willingness to pay for it.

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It may happen when coal plants are retired at the end of their useful
lives, and replaced by more expensive (on a total cost basis) gas fired
plants, with a resulting increasin the price of electricity. Then the
government could say "Well, we could have cheaper electricity if we were
to build nuclear plants." The hip pocket nerve is very sensitive.

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:24:35 +1100, Sylvia Else

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Their useful life is a long way off, with the exception of Hazlewood
which will most likely go gas.
At the same time the NSW Govt is looking at building 2 new 2.2 GW coal
fired plants in the Hunter.
45 years is the typical life of a coal plant.
Also, most of the Coal Plants in Australia are now privately owned, so
the owners will take the least risky option when replacement is needed
and that will be gas, also a very expensive option.
The other problem is that electricity supply is essentially a State
Govt issue, so rising electricity prices will be reflected by anger
against State Govts, not against the Feds.
We will see this on July 1st this year in NSW.




Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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Really?
What about the nearly 1 million energy customers who have voluntarily signed
up for the GreenPower scheme in it's various forms?
Almost all of those are residential customers, and many of them (like
myself) voluntarily pay a fair bit extra for 100% renewable electricity.

Whether or not they do it because they only care about CO2 levels, and/or
other pollutants or impacts etc, or they simply want a sustainable energy
future is open to debate. But sign up they do.

Dave.

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Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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signed

Yep, and despite some companies being fined for misrepresentation of their
actual renewable energy supplies being far less than 100%. But I'm all for
such *voluntary*  payments. Not so happy about compulsory carbon taxes for
futile tokenism, whilst giving baby bonuses etc. to make the problem worse!

MrT.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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Yeah, that's been going on since day one.
You have to be very careful about which plan you chose.

Jack Green was one of the first retailers, and consistently one of the worst
offenders. Looks like they have now been de-registered:
http://www.greenpower.gov.au/news_details.aspx?newsID44 %

Origin 100% is consistently rated as one of the top providers, and that's
who I'm with. I pay a fair bit extra for my 100% wind power.

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The Baby Bonus is a joke. And the devil is in the detail with any carbon
tax.
And where is the serious money going into renewable energy research and
infrastructure?

BTW, I like the Story of Stuff's take on Cap & Trade:
http://www.storyofstuff.com/capandtrade /

Dave.

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Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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A simple carbon tax used to fund public research into renewable energy, and
phase out the existing coal fired power stations doesn't suit big business.
Selling the once publicly owned power stations makes the whole problem worse
of course. Still waiting to see any of the promised benefits! (just like the
sale of public transport)


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Yep, the only thing worse than giving baby bonuses etc. to help make the
problem worse, is giving free tradeable licenses to the worst polluters at
consumer expense.

MrT.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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The Green Power annual audit (most recent being 2008 for some reason)

http://www.greenpower.gov.au/admin/file/content13/c6/GreenPower%20Compliance%20Audit%202008.pdf

speaks volumes. Most people buying green power opt for the lowest level
offered by their chosen provider. It's just more tokenism driven by a
guilt trip.

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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Sure, but most of the genuine plans actually cost at least something extra.
So people do seem to care, and guilt trip or no guilt trip, are at least
putting their money behind renewable energy.

Dave.

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Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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My take on it is that most people are doing it grudgingly, and paying
they least they can to ease their consciences.

Suylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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Or take a car over the Zimbabwe border and pay a 'carbon tax'. That'll
do the trick.

Atom Egoyan
Melbourne, Australia


Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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If it makes you feel better, the electricity suppler "ERGON" sent out
a brochure to its "customers" last month
stating that users can save money and "their carbon footprint" by
(note: Im not endorsing this AGW rubbish, just quoting)

1> using citronella candles rather than electric lights - not only do
they look better, and use less electricity but as a bonus also repel
insects
2> cook on a BBQ rather than a stove, this also saves heaps of energy
by cooking outside, and not heating the house will save on air
conditioning
3> replace outdoor "guzzling" 150w sensor floodlights with 2x25w
CFL's.


The rest are pretty simple (and will work)

4>Use the clothesline rather than the dryer (if you dont have snow
droppers around)
5>Connect your pool filter to an off-peak tariff
6>use an insulated cover on your heated pool.

customer suggestion:
We use a stovetop gas kettle, and every Wednesday is a no power night.
we use candles only, sit outside and spotlight possums.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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Shifting loads to off-peak just encourages the building of more
coal-fired base load capacity, and coal is the worst CO2 producer per
unit energy generated.

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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Eh ?
It's the discrepancy between existing base load capacity and off-peak
demand that should be reduced to improve coal efficiency. Evening out
the demand with off-peak tarrifs will always be essential.




Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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It does nothing much to coal efficiency. Most coal based generators run
24/7 at their rated output anyway, since it makes no sense to run
anything with a higher marginal cost while there is unused coal
generation capacity.

The motivation for shifting peak loads is to flatten the load curve,
with the result that more of the load is base load. Since the cheapest
way of supplying base load is through the use of coal based generators,
flattening the load curve results, in due course, in more of the total
energy output coming from coal based generators, and thus more CO2.

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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Exactly. We should be eking out every last watt from the existing base
load generators to reduce the total CO2 per watt, 'most'  is not the best
practise.

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Our economy is driven by price, ask anyone if they want to pay more for
electricity for some dubious CO2 benefit and see how far you get !

It is ludicrous to increase investment in expensive peak-load generators
when simply shifting demand to off-peak increases existing plant efficiency.

Anyway, are you proposing nuclear power instead of coal to replace the base
load
generators ?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Global warming Greenie freezes to death !
http://www.ecoenquirer.com/south-pole-tragedy.htm
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Doubly ironic that the report came from Punta Arenas, where global warming
has been in reverse gear for the last 100 years.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id30%4859340004&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1

Look at the graph !!! I wonder how the AGW faithfull can explain how Punta
Arenas
shows a clear cooling trend for the last 100 years...
Download the station data (.txt file) and plot the trend with Excel if you
don't believe me!





Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers



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Not much of a "clear cooling trend" from that graph, but certainly does not
support GW!

MrT.



Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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The CO2 isn't relevant, that scam is old news, has had its day and is
close to dead in the water.


Shifting loads to off peak has to help increase the efficiency of the
existing power stations.
It also has to help prevent the costs needed in building new ones.

If we need them we need them then let's build them.
If we want to remain somewhere in the first world & have any sort of
living standards, cheap electricity is vital.


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