Earth Hour headache for power suppliers

**Oops. Here is your claim:

"Oh yes you did. You claimed 2W for an operating monitor"

I said nothing of the sort.

Now go check up 'Energy Star' as it pertains to computer monitors.

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

signed

Yep, and despite some companies being fined for misrepresentation of their actual renewable energy supplies being far less than 100%. But I'm all for such *voluntary* payments. Not so happy about compulsory carbon taxes for futile tokenism, whilst giving baby bonuses etc. to make the problem worse!

MrT.

So why did you need to snip it then when you had snipped *nothing* up til now?

Note the IN USE statement which is what *I* SPECIFICALLY referred to.

"> Figure on around 2 Watts for the monitor"

Anyone else can easily see what you actually wrote, and how you continually tried to redefine the argument to suit yourself. Frankly you are not worth wasting any more of my time on though!

MrT.

**Because, frankly, the whole thing is very, very tiresome. You chose to ignore the obviously moronic comment about 500 Watt PCs, yet chose, instead, to focus on my comments which placed the actual operating power levels of PCs in standby in some kind of sense. I can only wonder why you chose to quibble about a handful of Watts, rather than concentrating on the '500 Watt' figure. It seems, therefore, that you agree with this patently nonsensical figure. **I was SPECIFICALLY speaking about computers in standby. Which, if you cared to read what is written, you may just understand.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Yeah, that's been going on since day one. You have to be very careful about which plan you chose.

Jack Green was one of the first retailers, and consistently one of the worst offenders. Looks like they have now been de-registered:

Origin 100% is consistently rated as one of the top providers, and that's who I'm with. I pay a fair bit extra for my 100% wind power.

The Baby Bonus is a joke. And the devil is in the detail with any carbon tax. And where is the serious money going into renewable energy research and infrastructure?

BTW, I like the Story of Stuff's take on Cap & Trade:

Dave.

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Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

The Green Power annual audit (most recent being 2008 for some reason)

speaks volumes. Most people buying green power opt for the lowest level offered by their chosen provider. It's just more tokenism driven by a guilt trip.

Sylvia.

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You have certainly made it so.

Simply because I never agreed with it!. I responded to what YOU wrote, not what someone else wrote. That too much for you to comprehend?

It seems once again you are wrong!

worth

So what part of the statement "In use, you can add around 20 ~ 30 Watts" applies only to standby mode and why?

MrT.

A simple carbon tax used to fund public research into renewable energy, and phase out the existing coal fired power stations doesn't suit big business. Selling the once publicly owned power stations makes the whole problem worse of course. Still waiting to see any of the promised benefits! (just like the sale of public transport)

Yep, the only thing worse than giving baby bonuses etc. to help make the problem worse, is giving free tradeable licenses to the worst polluters at consumer expense.

MrT.

Sure, but most of the genuine plans actually cost at least something extra. So people do seem to care, and guilt trip or no guilt trip, are at least putting their money behind renewable energy.

Dave.

--
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Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

My take on it is that most people are doing it grudgingly, and paying they least they can to ease their consciences.

Suylvia.

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You could also consider the fuel used in people travelling there to buy this crap. Considering outlets like these are a primary cause of obesity, this tends also to increase car usage, as the bigger you are, the harder to walk or bike long distances. The fact that people in this state tend to be more unhealthy, less efficient with work ability, means they consume much more resources.

One could also consider the amount of crap in supermarkets these days too, but I dont think anything comes close to US fast food chains.

r f ,

I don't see how we can reduce the use of these resources, short of reducing population or mandating higher quality products that last longer and need to be replaced less often. If you live in a tropical area, and/or high humidity, air con isn't a luxury. Without it, health problems (especially for elderly and sick people), lack of productivity etc take their toll.

You're going to have a hard time convincing the current crop of greenheads, who in their infinite wisdom, have done some reading, and learned that people in the past did not have air conditioners, and managed to survive just fine. And they quite happily tell the world, writing on their personal computers, hooked up to an internet feed, sitting in a uber-ergonomic chair that was constructed from the finest plastic-based fabrics, refined metal and assortment of damper oils, in a part of the world that has a temperate climate, that the use of air conditioners is killing the planet.

...

c and

If it makes you feel better, the electricity suppler "ERGON" sent out a brochure to its "customers" last month stating that users can save money and "their carbon footprint" by (note: Im not endorsing this AGW rubbish, just quoting)

1> using citronella candles rather than electric lights - not only do they look better, and use less electricity but as a bonus also repel insects 2> cook on a BBQ rather than a stove, this also saves heaps of energy by cooking outside, and not heating the house will save on air conditioning 3> replace outdoor "guzzling" 150w sensor floodlights with 2x25w CFL's.

The rest are pretty simple (and will work)

4>Use the clothesline rather than the dryer (if you dont have snow droppers around) 5>Connect your pool filter to an off-peak tariff 6>use an insulated cover on your heated pool.

customer suggestion: We use a stovetop gas kettle, and every Wednesday is a no power night. we use candles only, sit outside and spotlight possums.

A three stage ultra low temp freezer.

Or take a car over the Zimbabwe border and pay a 'carbon tax'. That'll do the trick.

Atom Egoyan Melbourne, Australia

Shifting loads to off-peak just encourages the building of more coal-fired base load capacity, and coal is the worst CO2 producer per unit energy generated.

Sylvia.

**Indeed.

**All correct. My comment was solely aimed at the efficiency of cooking large numbers of meals at one time. **There's plenty of crap in the supermarkets with zero value for human health. **Really? You can't see that people could, for instance, hold off buying a new car for another year or so? Or, perhaps, planting some trees, rather than covering a yard with paving? Building smaller, more energy efficient homes? Wearing an extra layer of clothing, instead of running heaters? Re-using a PET bottle with tap water saves energy and resources at almost zero cost. There are many ways to deal with consumerism, without signicantly impinging on one's life-style.

If you

**Bollocks. Keeping fluids up and acting sensibly is how people deal with such conditions. They always have. I watched a bunch og builders putting up a McMansion next door, over the Summer. Even on the hottest days, the builders were hard at it. No air con for them. They certainly kept their fluids up though.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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I do most of those things already. Every car I have has been kept for many years before changing (usually when its becoming too unreliable, or getting to the end of its useful life). I always have bought based on fuel efficiency - not for environmental, but cost reasons.

I don't use heaters (They arent needed here), even when in Moscow in

-5 temp, I didnt find it that cold, and wore the same jumper I use here It was a pleasure compared to the summer hell here.

I have kept bottled tap water in old PET bottles in the fridge at home and work for drinking for probably 25+ years that I can remember. These things make financial sense. I agree fully with you on the bottled water bullshit. The only time I had bought it was when overseas and not trusting the local water.

I dont have paving other than the path and driveway to the garage, but as for trees, I don't have them either due to the fact that they grow fast and the cost of removing all the crap from them is substantial. (as well as fees to dump it) Also when they starting bringing in the laws banning cutting down trees, I immediately removed almost all of them, while I was still allowed to, rather than being stuck with them forever, considering in the future I might need the space for a shed (and did) or something else and then face problems getting rid of them.

I did get the house insulated under Krudd's scheme, it has not reduced the summer temperature by even one degree.

up

In the high humidity where I live, sweat doesn't evaporate, just sticks to you and you can't cool down, and you drip sweat over everything you go near. Just the same, we have only air conditioned the bedroom and the workshop.

Working outside has some advantages, you can hose yourself down regularly and get some relief. you cant do these sort of things working indoors. Outdoors you cant have air con.

You can drink all the cold water you want, and its of limited effectiveness for the above reason. Even if its not that hot (this summer has been pretty mild by comparison) the humidity is the killer.

After getting severe heat exhaustion some 14 years back after a particularly long trip in summer, inland & suffering the effects, I immediately arranged for air con to be put in the work van, and our own car. Its a decision I never regret. The fuel consumption didnt really change, probably due to having the windows closed and maintaining the aerodynamics of the vehicle.

Eh ? It's the discrepancy between existing base load capacity and off-peak demand that should be reduced to improve coal efficiency. Evening out the demand with off-peak tarrifs will always be essential.