Earth Hour headache for power suppliers

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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html

It would be really funny if an Earth Hour triggered cascading blackouts
(preferably not on the eastern seabord of Australia, given that that's
where I live).

Sylvia.

Re: Earth Hour headache for power suppliers


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**Clearly, your sense of humour is different to the rest of us. I certainly
don't find such an event the least bit amusing. Fortunately, like most media
crap, there were no problems.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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This whole earth hour thing is a pure media beef up anyway.
Wow lets turn our lights off to save the world..
Don't worry about all the PC's that are left running in every office,shop
and workplace, drawing up to 500 watts each,
The amount of power that McDonalds alone draw with their massive hotplates
running 7 days a week and now 24 hours every day.
Lets all turn off our lights, and save the world,
and DO NOTHING else because we now all feel we have done our bit reducing
the power consumption by 200 watts to our house for 60 minutes .


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You miss the entire point of earth hour.
It's all about increasing awareness of energy conservation.

Dave.

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It's failed miserably then!
Frankly I will only take notice when they do something about the REAL
problem, global over-population.

MrT.



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With all the publicity it gets, it can hardly be called a failure.
It's actually quite a brilliant and successful idea as far as awareness
plans go.

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Yes, the root of most of the world's future (and current) problems (religion
aside).

Dave.
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 Though some people simply don't get the idea of irony.  Our building is
plastered with the Earth Hour posters, however, one of the occupants is
a company that makes coal and gas power stations.

 Being in IT, and having been in electronics engineering, I fully
support that (the manufacturing, not the earth hour bullshit).

 Turning off the lights doesn't actually DO anything productive.
Lighting (at least the ones that are under normal control) form only a
small percentage of the total power outlay, so even if *everyone* turned
off *every* light it will do nothing for the longer term issues we're
going to have to cover.  Less so since it's only an hour.

 Google "earth hour sponsors" and have a gander as to what the media is
saying on this, or more importantly, what they're NOT saying.

 Not to mention the exemptions, where wikipedia says:
"Essential cultural events like Canadian hockey matches will carry on
regardless of Earth Hour. According to the Vancouver Sun, "TV,
particularly when tuned to the Canucks, is classified as an essential
use of power."

 So there you have it.  Fuck the planet, hockey is more important.  Or,
translated to English, 'nobody cares except the media', presumably
because they're going to make a buck out of it.

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I found out on Friday that last year's Earth Hour at Melbourne University
ended up being an expensive fiasco. Somebody thought it would be clever
to turn off a power segment, not stopping to wonder what might be on
the circuit. Turns out a freezer full of stuff had to be thrown away,
for a total cost of $36K. So much for saving the planet.

Atom Egoyan,
Melbourne, Australia


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What kind of freezer has so little thermal inertia that its contents
can't withstand a one hour power outage?

Sylvia.

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A three stage ultra low temp freezer.

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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/earth-hour/earth-hour-headache-for-power-suppliers-20100326-r37h.html
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**It's SYMBOLIC. It's not a real attempt to do anything. It draws attention
to the very real problems faced by our civilisation.

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**Dunno what kind of PC you use, or are familiar with, but the figure (for
a, say, Core 2 Duo + LCD screen), the figure is far closer to 50 ~ 100 Watts
in standby. In use, you can add around 20 ~ 30 Watts.


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**One could argue that the economy of prividing food via fast food outlets
is a far better use of energy than thousands of housholds using their own
stoves and ovens. Of course, the issue of obesity, heart disease and cancer
(all linked to fast food consumption) is a bigger issue.

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**Again: It's SYMBOLIC. Far better would be for people to stop using their
air conditioners, pool pumps and all the other stuff that consumes lots of
power. Stuff like: Concrete manufacture, aluminium smelting, steel making,
etc. IOW: Consumerism is the real problem.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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If it was so symbolic they wouldn't ask us to turn off things at a
specific time on a specific date. Better for them to say, turn your
lights off for 1 hour every night; you choose the time.

Nick.

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Wrong. the whole point is to make it a big fun event that people (and the
media) can get behind, that's what helps builds awareness in peoples minds.
To do that you have to have a specific date and time, and not make it too
often that people bore of it. Look how much media coverage it gets, it's
massive. You'd get zero media coverage or interest if there was no specific
date or time.

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No way, because then you are simply telling people to do something, it would
almost certainly be a complete failure.
People will switch off (no pun intended) to stuff like that unless there is
some compelling reason to do it.
Symbolic/awareness programs are entirely different to programs designed to
get immediate measureable results.
To get immediate practical results usually requires either laws and
penalties (works in Shanghai for example), or incentives. Without those you
have to rely upon changing peoples mindsets over time.

Sydney Water for example have had good success in reducing overall water
consumption through various awareness programs, and Earth Hour is doing a
similar thing for power consumption.

Dave.

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Most people turn them off for 5 or 6 hours every night already!

MrT.



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Watts

Dunno what kind of PC you use, but *in use* there are *very few* desktop
PC's that draw LESS than 70-130 Watts! Some CPU's alone can draw more than
that! And some PSU's waste nearly that much!

MrT.



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**A Core 2 Duo will use as little as 5 Watts, if not doing all that much.
Certainly power consumption will rise substantially, when rendering graphics
or playing games, but not if it's just sitting around in an office at night.
Support electronics (not high end graphics, of course) will typically
consume another 20 Watts and a hard drive will use less than 10 Watts.
Figure on around 2 Watts for the monitor and another 20 Watts for power
supply inefficiency.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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So not really *in use* then.

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graphics
night.

You said "In use, you can add around 20~30 Watts", that's not sitting idle
at night. I just turn mine off then.

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"Figure" it all you like, but try actually measuring one sometime when it's
NOT idle. And "2 Watts for the monitor", you are joking right!!!
Clearly you know less about electronics than you think you do.

MrT.





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Wilson knows less about almost everything than he thinks he does.

Actually, I doubt he thinks, at least rationally, very often.


--
Dyna

All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged.



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**Which is EXACTLY what they're doing at night. When doing word processing,
emails web browsing, etc, processor power jumps up to maybe 10 Watts. Games
and high end graphics forces the CPU to work harder, but that is not
relevant, since we're discussing computers that are left on at night, when
no one is actually using it. Of course, older CPUs do consume considerably
more power, but anything made within the last few years employs serious
power saving technologies.

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**I said that. CPUs are, for the most part, doing pretty much nothing in
most computers.

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**Mine consumes 1.6VA on standby and 20VA when in use (yes, I've measured
the figures). I would expect more modern monitors consume even less. Don't
forget: We're discussing computers that are left powered at night (when no
one is using them).


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



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much.
processing,


Instead of "maybe" "figure"ing you'd do better to try some measurements on a
variety of PC's when actually doing those things.


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Nope, I *specifically* replied to your statement "In use, you can add around
20~30 Watts." and quoted your higher figures.
But your idea of in use and in standby are the same it seems.



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idle

Speak for your own, however there are far more things consuming power in a
PC than the CPU alone!


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So you actually think 20VA = 2W then?


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NO WE ARE NOT.
Have trouble reading Trevor? Hell I even added asterisks to the *in use*
statement to make it obvious. Maybe time for some new glasses?

MrT.



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