CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View


Hi All,

I'm already stocking up on incandescent lamps. I figure a six-pack of
incandescent lamps will cover me for a year, and it isn't too
expensive to buy a lifetimes supply. About $30-40 worth of lamps ought
see me out.

Frankly I've given CFL's a good try and the performance is pathetic.
Most of the performance claims just verge on fraud in my book.

Damn things are dim, and get dimmer as they age. Checking them with a
light-meter I just don't believe the claims made for 60W light output
from 8W, or whatever they claim. I can't even read newsprint under an
alleged 60W equivalent CFL.

And as for the claimed 8000 hours life, you must be joking. I've tried
quite a few in high use applications and none have lasted as long as a
normal incandescent bulb.

It is actually quite easy to buy a cheap incandescent light globe that
works well and gives quite reasonable service.

I think the manufacturers need to do some heavy work on improving the
quality and reliability of CFL's. They are just total rubbish in my
book. Only a fanatic greenie could love these stupid things.

Just telling you what I think. :) Not holding anything back here. :)

Ross


(To get email address ROT 13)
ebff snipped-for-privacy@lnubb.pbz

Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



"RMD"
Quoted text here. Click to load it

 **  I'm sure heaps of folk will do just the same.


Quoted text here. Click to load it


  **  Ditto here.


Quoted text here. Click to load it


**  Two things have to happen before folk can trust CFLs to perform as
claimed and not become a pollution issue.

1.  The regulators create a mark of proven quality and conformity to
acceptable standards that all CFLs makers have to earn and then can apply to
their products.

2.  All sellers are required to accept used examples back for proper
re-cycling.




.......    Phil




Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Anyway, where does this quoted 1000 hour mean life for incandescents come
from? In our house there's no doubt that it's way longer for most of the
globes we use. Nearly all of our failures are with particular fittings, for
some reason, maybe heat dissipation. For the rest, we go for years without
changing a globe, even the ones that get used a lot.



Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it

It comes from the days when such figures were conservative test results,
rather than a figment of some advertising copywriters imagination.

MrT.



Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



"Bruce Varley"
Quoted text here. Click to load it


** It don't hardly matter if an incandescent lamp lasts 1000 or maybe 2000
hours since the energy bill is already up to around 10 times its purchase at
1000 hours.

Plus so  called " long life " bulbs simply put out less light and so are
more expensive to use.

A CFL however must last well OVER 1000 hours just to break even in cost with
an ordinary incandescent  - depends how much the particular CFL cost.

The savings being claimed only happen if the life is 5000 hours or more.

By which time, most of them are either too faint to use for most lighting
job or dead.




.......   Phil





Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it
with

Which is the problem of course, since MANY fail to do so. My *average* is
certainly less than that. And some cost over $10.
IME I could buy and run a normal 60W globe for the life of the CFL, for less
than the purchase price of the CFL in nearly all cases.

MrT.




Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)


Quoted text here. Click to load it

I've had CFL's last for more than 8000 hours, so it's not just
marketing bullshit, they CAN achieve that.
Yes, some brands are crap, but others are excellent.
Some brands and models take ages to warm up, others are instant to
full brightness.
Some fade with time, others don't, even after 8000 hours.

I'm using some of these new Megaman 11W Halogen replacement ones and
they claim 15,000 hours.
http://www.neco.com.au/product.asp?pID16%8&cID47 %
http://www.megamanuk.com/technology/ingenium.php
They do take a long time to warm up though, worst than any other CFL I
have tried.

Dave :)


Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Hi Dave,
Can you mention these brands and models that are excellent, quick to full
brightness, and don't fade?

--
Cheers,

Marc

We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes, I'd love to know too. I've tried many brands and they were all crap
IMO. NONE lasted even close to 4000 hours, let alone 8000 hours. One DOA and
a few lasted less than 100 hours. At a guess my current average would be
around 500 hours, possibly less. Have finally given up buying them, my hope
that they might improve was in vain I'm afraid.

MrT.



Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it

In the UK I have been using Osram ones and I am very happy with them.  There
are two Osram ranges in the shops here, a cheaper range that I have never
tried and a better range (Osram Dulux EL Longlife) that I find to be very
good indeed.  They are made in Germany, rated for 15000 hours and I have
been using them exclusively in my house for several years now and I have
never had one fail, though I did smash one by accident.  They are rated for
500000 on-off cycles so I have been switching them on and off just as much
as I would with incandescent bulbs and have had no problems.  They start so
fast that there is no noticeable delay.  At the moment in the UK they can
be bought at Sainsbury's for 60 pence each though the usual price is more
like 2.20 pounds = $5.50  The only problem I have had is that they don't
fit into some light fittings because they are longer than incandescent
bulbs.
http://www.osram.com/products/general/compact/professionals/dulux_longlife.html
I could also find them in the catalog on the Australian website but the URL
wouldn't work when I copied it because the use all kinds of scripty crap on
their website.

Chris


Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



"Chris Jones"
Quoted text here. Click to load it


 **  LOL !!

 The seems to be a major error with the data on that page.

 500,000  cycles of 90 mins on and 15 off adds up to  750,000 hours on !!

 Just on 85 years of life  !!!!



Quoted text here. Click to load it


**  Those Osram  "Longlife" CFLs do not appear to be on sale here.

BTW

Australia uses the ES26 socket ( same as USA), not the large ES27 as used in
UK and Europe.

We also use the bayonet type  BC or  BC22 very widely.




......   Phil




Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.osram.com/products/general/compact/professionals/dulux_longlife.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I see you have also spotted the same dodgy maths that I just noticed in my
post on abse.  The ones I am using are bayonet cap.  Thanks for pointing
out that there are different screw fittings between Europe and Australia.
I only knew that the USA ones were different from Europe.

Chris


Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



"Chris Jones"


Quoted text here. Click to load it


** The 90 mins on and 15 mins off test period gives 105 minutes  -  OK.

Imagine the dumb copywriter thought it was 105 seconds.

15,000  hours    =  54,000,000 seconds.

Divide by 105   =  514,000

Hence the erroneous "  500,000 "  on /off cycles claim.




......   Phil





Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it
http://www.osram.com/products/general/compact/professionals/dulux_longlife.html
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes, that might explain it, but on the box it says something different
again: 165 minutes on and 15 minutes off, translated into no less than 25
languages!

I would just put it down to the behaviour of a typical marketing department.
The bulbs are still good anyhow...

Chris

Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)


On Feb 23, 7:59 am, "Marc"
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Hi Marc
I have GE and Mirrabella branded ones that are full brightness from
switch on, with no flicker. Have had them for 3.5 years now, and no
sign of fading. In fact have never had a CFL of mine fade.

Sorry, don't remember the brand of the one that's done over 8000hours,
it's in a previous house.

Dave :)


Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Funny, Mirrabella have been the worst IME, but as has already been pointed
out, the brand name bears little correlation to the tube construction or
even what factory it came out of.
I certainly wish I had as much luck with them as you though!

MrT.



Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes, I know people who have got some Mirabella's and they take a bit
of time to warm up. It does seem to vary immensely.

I've got about half a dozen different brands around my house, and have
been exclusively CFL for about 10 years now, and I've had pretty good
luck. Only one dead one out of the box from memory, no fading that I
have noticed, and only a few that have died prematurely (within a year
or two).

I buy whatever brand is available at the shop that a)physically fits,
has the right colour temp, the right rating, and the right fitting.
Often there is only one choice available that fits all the
requirements.

The warm up thing doesn't really bother me in most cases, but I hate
ones that flicker at switch on. The Megaman halogen ones do this, but
because they are outside it's not a big deal. Shame really because the
MegaMan ones have the nicest light of any other brand I've tried, very
smooth and cool looking pure white.

Dave :)


Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)


Quoted text here. Click to load it
hours.http://www.neco.com.au/product.asp?pID16%8&cID47%http://www.megamanuk.com/technology/ingenium.php
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Bummer. I was hoping to fit out our new house almost exclusively with
that item (or similar Megaman CFL product), but the "cold light = dim
light" effect really bugs me.

BTW, is the CFL the same length as a standard halogen globe fitting,
or does it protrude below the ceiling level?


Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)


Quoted text here. Click to load it


in recent years, We have used a large number of CFL's in our work.  In
all cases they were australian 240v CFL's being run from 120v, inside
sockets mounted in imported US made equipment (too expensive to get
120v bulbs, which had a short life anyway -  and too much hassle to
rewire dozens of sockets for 240v). Most CFLs will happily start and
run on a 120v supply without any noticeable drop in performance.

(note: one advantage no-one here has mentioned is that CFL's seem to
be really good at handling voltage drops, and I would recommend using
them in areas where you have brown-outs etc.)

We used GE brand 18W CFL's that were sold by big W at the time (2001),
and were "guaranteed  3 year life".

In all cases they would be run for about 10 hours a day, 7 days a
week, and were quite reliable.  The first round of failures occured at
about 3 years, where about 30% of the CFL's had died and since then
about 40% of the original units are still running, though brightness
has reduced.

Have replaced them recently with Philips units that are stocked at
Haymans, however the "Fairway" brand units that are sold dirt cheap at
our local Bunnings also work fine, but dont seem to give out as much
light in my opinion.  Too early yet to give an opinion on their usable
life though.

------------------------------------------------
out of interest:
The first I can remember of "CFL's" was in the mid 1980's when a
collegue obtained a couple of them.  In those days they cost about $25
to buy, (which is probably close to $50 in today's $) and the entire
tube was encased in what looked like a big glass "jar" and probably
sealed ?   They took several minutes from power-on to come up to full
brightness, but after that they worked well, and produced plenty of
usable light.

At the time, I can remember thinking they were a bit of a waste of
time - mainly because of the cost, because a 40w batten could be
bought for less than that, the tube could be replaced for about $2,
and probably did the job as well or better, as well as starting within
seconds at normal room temperature.

Imagine my surprise when visiting there about a year ago, and seeing
that he had one of them still in use as an outside light ! He claimed
that the light had not failed in that time, but it was only being used
for about 2 hours 2 nights a week  (usually only used on weekends when
they were using the outdoor area).

The time it takes to get to any usable brightness is annoying though.









Re: CFL poor performance (=total rubbish)



"kreed"

Quoted text here. Click to load it


 **  That last claim just ain't true.

The light output of a CFL varies closely in proportion to the AC supply
voltage -  so at 120 volts AC the output is half what it is at 240 volts AC.

Tested several I have here and found the rms current draw remains constant
over the range from 120 to 240 but the reading on a lux meter doubles.  The
colour does not alter.


Quoted text here. Click to load it


**  Yep, the light output of an incandesce bulb is a much more dramatic
function of applied voltage than with a CFL  - and the colour changes a lot
too.

BTW:

One more ISSUE with CFLs is they are sensitive to ambient temperature.

Even the  "No Frills" one that starts instantly with close to full light
output is a real  SLUG to start and deliver light when cooled to around
freezing temp first.

This can be a serious problem in certain situations ( very cold weather /
inside a cool room , forcing folk to leave CFLs on 24/7 to avoid the warm up
delay.

No such issue with incandescent bulbs at all of course.




.......   Phil





Site Timeline