Software availability

Greetings,
I am new to this group so my apologies if this request has ever arisen
before.
A relative wants to install a camera in the bell chamber (where the
bells are) of a church and feed the output down to the ringing chamber
(where the people and visitors are) about 60ft below. There is
considerable danger in the bell chamber when the bells are swinging
and that is without the sound levels so it has to be remote.
I thought about using a wireless camera to a router below to feed a
PC, but that gives rise to security issues. There is need to switch
any lighting from the ringing chamber (there is power in the bell
chamber) to be sure that the bell chamber lighting has been switched
off after use (cost of electricity plus fire risk) so it would be easy
to run a CAT5/6 at the same time.
I then had the bright idea of using a rPi at the bottom to connect to
the camera cable, and a HDMI feed into a cheap TV which can then be
stored in a (relatively) thin and locked wall cupboard.
My request for help - does anyone know of readily available software
that would run on the rPi and present the remote pictures? Ideally it
should be power-up bootable so that keyboard and mouse are not
required for normal use. I have a rPi - I have had for nearly two
years - but I have yet to power it up due to other domestic pressures
(getting used to retirement/daughter's wedding/becoming grandparents)
but I am hoping to get that resolved after our hols.
Any (polite) advice gratefully accepted.
--
Woody 

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
Reply to
Woody
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seems fairly trivial - a web cam and either a cat 5 crosover cable or a small switch, plus a screen for the pi, then configure it to automatic boot and login, and automatically run some browser on it to capture the video
--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the  
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. ? Erwin Knoll
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
Why not get the RPi camera, put the RPi and that in the bell chamber, and run the HDMI output down to the display. Power the RPi from the bell chamber lighting so it autoboots when the lights are turned on.
60 feet (18.3m) is rather to long for HDMI, so get cheap HDMICat5 converters for each end and use Cat 5 cable like you suggested.
The RPi camera costs just over GBP20, Perhaps the one with no IR filter might be best for possibly low-light conditions.
Cheapest HDMICat5 converters about GBP22.50 - order code CPC/Farnell AV18496.
Would have the advantage of a double-check on those pesky lights being left on!
Now awaiting being shot down in flames by the experts.
John
--
John Williams, now back in the UK - no attachments to these addresses! 
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Reply to
John Williams (News)
Why not get the RPi camera, put the RPi and that in the bell chamber, and run the HDMI output down to the display. Power the RPi from the bell chamber lighting so it autoboots when the lights are turned on.
60 feet (18.3m) is rather too long for HDMI, so get cheap HDMICat5 converters for each end and use Cat 5 cable like you suggested.
The RPi camera costs just over GBP20, Perhaps the one with no IR filter might be best for possibly low-light conditions.
Cheapest HDMICat5 converters about GBP22.50 - order code CPC/Farnell AV18496.
Would have the advantage of a double-check on those pesky lights being left on!
Now awaiting being shot down in flames by the experts.
John
--
John Williams, now back in the UK - no attachments to these addresses! 
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject! 
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Reply to
John Williams (News)
I like the idea but it would be nice to have something enclosed (its cold and dusty up there) that can be remotely moved and/or zoomed. I will however pass the idea on as it is a cheap solution - churches are not overloaded with money!
--
Woody 

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
Reply to
Woody
Sweety jar?
on a swivel and some bits of cord? Zoom is out, though, I suspect.
John
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John Williams, now back in the UK - no attachments to these addresses! 
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Reply to
John Williams (News)
I don't know much about running the HDMI signal for 60 feet even if using a CAT-5 converter. But I do know that Ethernet over CAT-5 cable is a no brainer. Heck, you could use USB if you had a few repeaters in the line, but that would be awkward to say the least.
So an rPi at each end connected by a CAT-5 Ethernet cable should give you everything you need in the way of hardware. Here is one of many web pages showing how to set up the software.
formatting link
--

Rick
Reply to
rickman
Thanks Rick, very interesting although to someone with no Linux experience it looks a bit 'deep!'
Two issues: (a) I would prefer to have a plain screen rather than a broswer window on display, (b) I want the whole thing to self start as it would be better if there was no keyboard/mouse connected else people will play - OK maybe a mouse if the camera is steerable.
Will two rPi's talk to each other over LAN (presumably a reversing cable) or will they need a cheap router in line. Also the site says it needs an Internet connection which, of course, being in a 500 year old stone-built church there will not be. I suppose it could all be set up remotely (where an Interweb connection is to hand) and then shipped into place?
Any further thoughts?
--
Woody 

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
Reply to
Woody
I'm very much an rPi newbie myself. But I have reached a point where I can start to do things with help from Google now and need to ask here a lot less. I had looked at Beagle boards and other SBCs running Linux for some time and never got a warm fuzzy. Even though the rPi is the dog of the group for many technical reasons, it has a *tremendous* amount of support much more readily available than the other products.
I would expect video can be viewed full screen making any app window you use go away giving a TV look. Don't know about the rPi but on my PC that makes the video work better too as it doesn't have to be resized in the existing window.
I can't imagine it would be overly hard to make it all run on boot. I was doing this through the autoexec.bat file in DOS many, many years ago. Again, Google is your friend.
I think the only thing a routed would do for you is assign IP addresses which I know you can work around... even if I don't know exactly how to do it. :)
Yes, if the Internet connection is only needed to set it up then no problem. I didn't read this article in depth or try any of it since I don't have the camera. It is representative of the help you can find on the web and was just the first one in the search list.
I would not do this in place before thoroughly testing it all in my lab for some time. Perhaps set it up at your bird feeder for a few weeks using it every day. You don't want to climb 60 feet up the belfry to fix something simple.
Use the newer, more powerful rPi 2 units and test every aspect you can think of. Consider any maintenance you might need to do in the belfry. There may be some simple things you can do to minimize this. A pi and camera only come to some $70, so you can do a lot of testing on a tiny budget and if it doesn't work out for some reason - no big deal.
--

Rick
Reply to
rickman
An rpi 'motor driver' hat and a couple of cheap stepper motors would give you tilt and pan ability. Zoom could be accomplished with a software zoom - that, of course, reduces resolution, but you probably don't need the full 5mp anyway.
Reply to
ray carter
You can connect two Pis together with just a standard CAT5 cable. You'd need to give them static (fixed) IP addresses, which is just a matter of adding some entries in /etc/network/interfaces for eth0.
An internet connection is required for installing any additional software and updates. It is also used to get the current time as the Pi does not have a battery powered clock to keep time when it is not running. Otherwise you don't need one.
You could add a battery powered Real Time Clock module to keep time. There are some very cheap ones around.
Reply to
Dom
Personally I would start with the camera and work backwards from there. There are any number of IP cameras out there, e.g.
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for a general idea of what is available and costs. I would be inclined against wireless in this contexts, churches, especially older ones, are generally solidly built and your signal may well not travel anywhere near as far as you might expect. Since you're running cables anyway another for network probably isn't an awful lot of extra work.
As for software, I've heard of Zoneminder for CCTV style stuff but here something more general such as VLC may be a better bet.
--
Andrew Smallshaw 
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org
Reply to
Andrew Smallshaw
Thanks for the input.
Actually using wi-fi may not be that difficult. The bell chamber has a wooden floor and there are two floors below the lower of which is the ceiling of the ringing chamber. There are of course holes through each of these for the bell ropes.
But as I said in my initial post, they want to run a mains cable (could be 1mm flex) from bell to ringing to power the bell chamber additional lighting so that they can be sure it is off when the leave. Zipping that together with something like a CAT5E would be a piece of cake.
As for the camera this is a bit of a problem. It would be nice to have decent quality and a good frame rate to stop blurring when the bells are moving, but churches have very little money. Methinks eBay may be an option.
--
Woody 

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
Reply to
Woody
But is strictly against regs and might bugger the insurance.
Need some twin track conduit to keep them physically isolated
A network over mains device however might be just fine
--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the  
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. ? Erwin Knoll
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher
Or just find a cheap one or two camera CCTV camera (which normally have handy wall mounts for the cameras) and run it straight to monitor(s) or via a cheap CCTV system to a PC monitor.
Even 640 x 480 resolution will be fine for you and these systems just displaying the cameras can then do full frame rate.
By the time you have added all the extras for running a Pi setup will probably cost more. Let alone all the time involved in setting it up putting everything in a safe box, and all the other paraphenalia.
Last time I did a 3 camera setup with dome camer for internal and two 'bullet' cameras for outside with day/night illumination was about 250 pounds including all the cables.
Most of the cheap CCTV systems can record or record on motion detect (as they are cheap linux boxes) then you can later see what wildlife ventures in at night :)
--
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk 
    PC Services 
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Reply to
Paul
Might be just legal if the mains wire is double-insulated, i.e. domestic flex rather than installation wiring. However there is a risk that interference from the mains would get into the ethernet cable, particularly if the lights it runs are fluorescent, so physical separation is always best.
--
Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire 
alan@adamshome.org.uk 
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Reply to
Alan Adams
Has the original question been answered yet ?
What IP cameras will work with the rPi ??
The OP asked for an app that does not use a browser.
Is there such a thing ??
Thanks
PS: My own question is: what USB cameras will work with the rPi ?? ( Again, without a browser )
Reply to
hamilton
Likelihood is that it will be braid-armoured or arctic flex 1mm or 1.5mm to give it strength as 60ft of hanging cable is quite heavy if not attached. The lighting will probably be a couple of 150W QH floods - I did think about LED but some of them strobe which could cause beating between lights and camera resulting in an unwatchable picture especially if the bells are moving.
--
Woody 

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
Reply to
Woody
That would have been my preferred choice but trying to find video cameras these days is like rocking horse s**t - everyone wants to sell webcams. A simple proper video camera to my mind will beat any webcam hands down for quality any time, its just finding them (haven't been on fleabay yet.)
I did think of one of those CCTV systems as they often come up cheap in Makro and sometimes in Aldi-Lidl but it lays the question of how long the cable(s) can be, are they powered up the cable be that they co-ax or ethernet (I realise USB would be s non-starter?)
--
Woody 

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
Reply to
Woody
Well the stuff there tends to be mutually exclusive. E.g I have a crappy USB camera that will do 640x480 and several apps will display that.
But most cameras that connect via *ethernet* will present it as a HTML page with a built in video.
There's some wildlife cam stuff that may be different.
--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the  
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. ? Erwin Knoll
Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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