Somebody crossposted something to 8 newsgroups and set followups to 4, one
of which was here. Then the usual thing happens where people reply without
trimming the followups, and there are now some lovely flames going.
You probably can't see the crossposts if you're viewing from Fidonet.
As ever, if helps if people refrain from feeding the troll.
(and I suppose you on Fido don't have killfiles either, and killing
crossposts isn't a thing you can do)
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: A. Dumas to mark lewis on Mon Mar 29 2021 07:17:51
no, it is not...
no, we are not using that software... we have no control over what someone else
runs on their BBS system... that someone has chosen to run a gateway package
and connect an echo with a newsgroup is their decision and their's
alone... since you are the one(s) being bothered, it is on you to complain to
the gate operator... most things look just fine over here...
email doesn't work?? interesting...
are you saying that my message, written from the US east coast (UTC -0400 right
now) should have its timestamp thrown out and the time my message is processed
at the gateway should be used?
or are you saying that the gateway software should convert my UTC -0400 time
stamp to UTC +1300?? that should be easily handled in the cases where the
message has a proper TZUTC control line...
however, TZUTC is a relatively new ""feature"" in fidonet messages... it being
only a decade or so old... it is not required by the fidonet standards and
there's a lot of older software being used that has no idea what TZUTC
is so their posts carry only the timestamp with no indicator of the
originator's timezone... if the original software and standards had specified
that the message time stamps were to be in UTC this would not be a problem but
fidonet is a hobby network with a ton of software written by hobbists... we
won't even talk about the time stamps of the messages written by users and
uploaded to the BBSes using offline messaging standards like QWK, QWKE, and
Bluewave which also know nothing about timezones...
since the gateway is located in New Zealand, that sounds about right...
we see similar on this side of the fence, at times, too... we don't worry about
it since we're more interested in the message bodys (first), maybe who wrote
the message (second), and possibly some third thing related to the
message or conversation or people involved...
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: A. Dumas to Vincent Coen on Mon Mar 29 2021 07:20:06
it absolutely does matter! otherwise you might have 100 messages all with the
same time stamp on them instead of the real one for when the message was
actually written... you're not thinking this through...
It's a valid/useful thing to do. People also gateway the USENET groups into
online web forums (fora?) where people don't realise that they are
participating in a USENET group (which leads to questions about 'postings
in this forum' and 'why isn't the moderator deleting this post!" etc.)
And sometimes to and from e-mail style mailing lists.
Naturally, they don't belong together here (here as in "comp.sys.raspberry-pi")
But crossposting from off-topic groups is a thing, sadly. As is off-topic
discussion within the group.
In your posts, you refer to other posters as (I assume) the FIDOnet entities
BY: Mike(3:770/3) and BY: TimS(3:770/3) -- I suspect whoever at 3:770/3 is
running the gateway, and is translating email addresses over here into
FIDOnet address there, and v.v. -- it's a while since I've used FIDOnet :)
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
Re: Re: Politics on this echo?
By: Anssi Saari to A. Dumas on Mon Mar 29 2021 15:59:53
AS> Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
AS> timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember
AS> the Usenet group though.
probably this one... it is a fairly popular area in fidonet... especially when
one doesn't want to have to set up a news reader...
AS> As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I suppose the
AS> gateway software didn't get fixed either.
it is next to impossible to fix a binary without the source code or someone
very adept at binary level hacking ;)
It's easily found all right but it is on you. You are bothering us with
that faulty gateway, *you* are using that software. I don't know Paul
Hayton, I don't have an account on his system.
No conversion is needed, just a correct format of the Date: header. I
suspect it is being converted wrongly; it should just use the current local
time of the gateway computer with the correct timezone added. It says +13
which seems right, so just use that without any time conversion. Right now,
all fido posts appear to be from the past, sometimes older than the post
they are replying to.
Something bigger wrong than that. My guess would be are in a zone like
Eastern America UTC-4, which should be applied, however it is applying
New Zealand UTC+13. How does NZ get +13? Shouldn't it be -11? Is it
something to do with daylight saving.
Wow, this again. I remember a very, *very* long thread about wrong
timezones and gateway software in the last few years. Don't remember the
Usenet group though. As I recall the discussion never went anywhere so I
suppose the gateway software didn't get fixed either.
It seems that there's no way to fix it since the original
timestamps do not always carry timezone information. Put it in the bin with
two digit years, indistinguishable date orderings and other unfixable bugs
and move on.
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
No, it isn't. It's comp.sys.raspberry-pi, a Usenet newsgroup. Somebody on
Fidonet (hard to believe it's still around...last time I used it was over 25
years ago, and one of the local sysops in 1:209 ran a Usenet gateway back
then) may be mapping it to the local idiom, but that's all it is: a mapping
from one network to another.
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Th> Somebody crossposted something to 8 newsgroups and set followups to 4,
Th> one of which was here. Then the usual thing happens where people reply
Th> without trimming the followups, and there are now some lovely flames
Th> going. You probably can't see the crossposts if you're viewing from
Th> As ever, if helps if people refrain from feeding the troll.
Th> (and I suppose you on Fido don't have killfiles either, and killing
Th> crossposts isn't a thing you can do)
Just catching up on this thread. I run the gateway and will try to emulate
the killfile idea to prevent the non raspberry pi cross posted stuff from
passing across to Fidonet. Not sure how successful I'll be but would like to
try. If you have any suggested newsgroups that I should try to filter as junk
groups can you let me know please :)
CD> Just curious, why is there so much political discussion on a Raspberry
CD> Pi echo?
CD> Is someone mis-gating this echo?
The newsgroup comp.sys.raspberry-pi is bi-directonaly gated to the Fidonet
echomail area RBERRYPI , this ha been for the most part without issue for a
number of years with folks from both sides of the gateway chatting about Rpi
The gateway software is legacy stuff called SoupGate. The gateway is based in
New Zealand where we are UTC +1200 and during our daylight savings time
(Sept - April) it's UTC +1300 ... so messages in/out via nodes from Fido have
this time stamp applied. Of course Fido nodes are also all around the globe
so we see messages in Fido here in NZ from our yesterday while we post in
other folks future :)
The gateway attempts to filter out some spam but is not (nor will never be)
100% effective at it.
No Newsgroup suggestions for going under the ban hammer, but would it be
possible to add Spam Assassin to your spam filtering pipeline? Its a
good, flexible an configurable email spam filter. At the least, it would
be interesting to see if it is also useful for filtering newsgroup or
Fidonet message streams.