Weather radios

The benefit of the "weather radio" is that it will key on the regional alert code that it is set for and wake you at 3 AM with the new watch or warning broadcast message. The ones I've used are all strictly for NOAA reception (no AM/FM at all).

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Yes, I understand the purpose and benefit of the weather radios, but the  
newer models that have been on the market for a couple of years have AM & FM  
broadcast bands on them.  As I said in my first post, the alerts and NOAA  
broadcasts are weather related info only.  When you need to know where to go  
for shelter or find food or water, NOAA doesn't tell you.  That's when you  
need the broadcast bands. 
Yes, I know that I could have two radios... one for weather and the other  
for commercial radio.  BUT, if these radios have AM & FM broadcast bands  
buuit in, why not make it of a quality that makes it serve both purposes  
well? 

Cheers, 
Dave M

I would be interested in the manufactory and model number.

Oh yes.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Yes, those without an AM/FM section. I have a Midland 74-200. Not the best but good enough (if you don't mind a dead 9v battery every time the AC power dies).

Yep, that's about it. The problem is not the receiver(s). It's the antenna system. SAME runs at about 162MHz. FM at 100MHz. AM BCB at

1MHz. Trying to design an antenna that works well at all those frequencies is not a trivial exercise. What usually suffers most is AM. The previous generations of receivers all had loopstick antennas inside, with an external antenna connection for AM. In todays all digital, single chip receivers, the loopstick is gone, and the customer is expected to attach a "long wire" (which really means random wire) antenna for AM. FM is a little better, since it only needs a comparatively shorter antenna. 162Mhz just far enough away from 100MHz that sharing the same antenna for both would require a diplexer. I have yet to see one in such a receiver. To save money, the designers usually supply only one antenna connection for all three frequency bands. The usual result is a performance compromise or simply inferior performance. If you want it to work right, find a dedicated SAME receiver, with no AM/FM section, and get a separate AM/FM receiver with its own antenna.

Some hints on matching antennas to AM/FM/whatever single chip receivers: Some common chips:

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

A lot of am/fm radios are pretty bad to start with. ONce you start adding something, the cost has to go down, so something has to give.

I have a windup Eton radio that has am/fm/tv audio and Weather. I didn't think the radio was bad, but it was nothing great, though partly it has a horrible dial (and I've gotten used to digital tuning). I have no idea whether it's good or bad compared to what you found, but I know I wouldn't use it as a regular radio (which doesn't say it's really bad, just I'd rather like the other radios). I can't say Weather is so great either, but once I get the antenna right, it's okay.

People often make the mistake when buying an "expensive" radio that the whole radio will be good. But if a decent shortwave receiver has an FM section, chances are good it's as simple an FM receiver as possible, the money going into the shortwave section, which generally covers the AM broadcast band so the benefits of the good shortwave receiver might show there). The FM is an addon, they see it as a selling point, but don't want to add much to the cost (because most people only want local reception). The same happens with AM/FM tuners or stereo receivers, the money goes into FM.

So people buying a weather receiver might expect a better receiver just because the cost is higher, when the cost likely reflects the weather reception.

I got some scrap cb sets once that included the Weather channels, and without tracing the circuit, it seems like the Weather receiver uses separate circuit. But it a single crystal multiplied up to mix the incoming signal down to a low IF. At least when I tried to figure out how the crystal frequency (that I can't remember) worked, the only way seemed to be a low IF using cheap IF transformers (there was no ceramic filter, no crystal filter). I can't remember how the different frequencies were received, either a different harmonic of that low frequency crystal, or maybe it was adding capacitance in parallel with the crystal, or perhaps both. But it was a really simple design, likely so it didn't add much to the cost of the CB set. I've not opened the windup radio to see what it's Weather receiver circuit is like, but I suspect a similar sort of circuit. Of course there may also be single IC solutions, which then would allow for a more complicated receiver without that much extra cost.

Michael

I figure cheap junk.I wish I had a useful NOAA warning device right now. I go to wonder if high wind or tornado is going to blow me away tonight.

Greg

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Yep, that's probably all of it in a nutshell.  Everything we buy no comes  
from China, and I've not seen anything of really high quality with a Made In  
China label.  But, in deference to what others have said, it just doesn't  
wash that the FM broadcast band in a weather radio is an afterthought.  NOAA  
broadcasts are FM as well, and the radios that I bought have had digital  
tuners, so the FM section of the radio must be of reasonable quality, or the  
NOAA reception would be bad as well. 
Using the same antenna for FM band and NOAA wouldn't be much of a problem,  
but the AM receiver almost demands a ferrite loopstick antenna.  I have  
never seen an AM radio that didn't have a loopstick for an antenna.  
(Excluding the old tube sets such as the AA5 sets.  They had loop antennae  
but no ferrite core.) 
I guess that in an emergency, you need two radios...  weather and FM band,  
especially in you live in the boonies , as I do. 

Cheers, 
Dave M

Yep, that's probably all of it in a nutshell. Everything we buy no comes from China, and I've not seen anything of really high quality with a Made In China label.

iPod, iPad and iPhone are all produced in china.

BTW don't use -- before your reply. Any decent newsreader throws all text after this away when replying.

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pim.

Have you looked inside?

Maybe it has changed, so they're using a software defined radio. But just becasue both are FM doesn't mean a thing. The FM broadcast band uses wide deviation, the Weatherband uses narrowband. Unless the receiver can change bandwidth, either you get weak audio (at the very least) on the Weatherband, or the bandwidth is too narrow for good reception.

YOu can get cheap AM/FM radios for few dollars. So I'm saying outright that at least in the past, that was likely the sort of thing. Plug that sort of thing into the weather radio, and you get the reception without spending much money.

It is certainly the case with shortwave radios that include FM. Like I said, it's an extra so might as well make it cheap.

I've not looked in my Eton windup, but I'd say without looking that it's not using some software defined radio. LIke I said, the weather receiver in the CB portable that I got at a hamfest uses a separate circuit. ANd a pretty simple circuit. There's no reason to combine something that sues a crystal, some transistors and some IF transformers the cost of changing the FM broadcast eceiver to weather band in such a radio likely would cost more than just tossing in a cheap am/fm radio.

That's true. I have looked inside small am or am/fm radios (headphone only) and they do a have a loopstick for am, just pretty short. Probably doesn't work that well, but a loopstick nonetheless.

I got an Eton am/fm/shortwave hand held radio at a garage sale for $2 a couple of years ago, right after I found far better Sony shortwave for ten dollars. The Eton is kind of interesting since it's back to analog tuning, but has a frequency counter for the "dial". Weird, the radio is simple, and likely about the same as that Hallicrafters S-120A solid state sw receiver I spent all my pennies on in the summer of 1971, a horrible horrible receiver. But now you can add a frequency counter and still make the receiver cheaper, and get rid of what was a lousy slide rule dial. Compexity increased massively, but it becomes cheaper.

Anyway, the thing runs off 2 AA batteries, and having used digitally tuned portables for years now, I am surprised how long the batteries last. I'm not using it constantly, but I put in some nimh batteries months ago, and they keep on ticking, while a digitally tuned radio would need regular recharging. But the other radio is digitally tuned, and likely uses current for signal handling, while the pocket radio overloads because it's designed for low current.

Michael

AM radio is almost worthless during a heavy storm with a lot of lightning strikes. I've sat through storms in the dark and in a building with no windows, but the strikes were so close that the room lit up from hairline cracks around the door. Some recorded over 1100 strikes in 30 minutes. Even FM is poor, due to the broadband RF noise from lightning strikes. I had one storm kill a computer monitor that wasn't plugged in, and had the video cable laying on the desk. The EMP destroyed the video input. A digital thermometer exploded, and some other equipment was damaged, even though it wasn't connected to anything.

The last time I was forced to evacuate by a hurricane, I took a weather radio, and two AM/FM radios, six flashlights and enough batteries to last for two weeks. I was sent to a local high school with it's own generator, so the flashlights didn't get a lot of use. All the local AM stations were off the air, along with the FM stations. I was able to pick up the BBC Americas Shortwave radio service for general news about the hurricane, but nothing local. That BBC service was discontinued a few years ago.

Because it would cost a penny more.

?-(