STUPID QUESTION No. 5

A package from All Electronics arrives with TERMINAL BLOCKS n overlaps

when time permits we're gonna clean up our wiring

yeah !

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Q5 is: how to label wires that is of what material n print substance ?

is there a preferred tape and ink ?

we tried 3M 33 and the felts bought at Wal but the ink fell off ...

masking tape is visually borderline gack .....coating the area with linseed..

any ideas ?

Reply to
avagadro7
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Yeah. Use what the pros do. They carry little sheets of material made for the purpose.

Some stupid questions are easily googled. Used the term "wire marker."

There are thousands of sites like this:

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Reply to
Tim R

I'm no pro but on occasion I've used white vinyl electrical tape and a black permanent marker. But usually I use nothing and then wonder which is which a couple years later.

Reply to
Micky

Make me rich and it's all yours. I had to label what I would guess was about 500 cables at an ISP many years ago. The two Kroy machines will print on shrink tube, which I decided was the easiest and best way.

All inks fade, rub off, or take too long to dry. What you want are Kroy thermal transfer labels for marking wires.

After the ink falls of, the pressure senitive glue will either melt or evaporate. Then, the black electrical tape will fall off. Same thing happens with most other sticky tapes when they get hot.

Masking tape has the amazing ability to ossify and fall off, leaving the ultimate sticky mess behind on the wire.

Yeah. Since I know you're not going to run out and spend a pile of money on a proper thermal label maker, I have a cheaper trick that I've used with good success. Make your label on a cheap thermal label maker, such as Dymo LetraTag: I have 3 of them, not counting the one's I dropped, threw against a brick wall, or ran over with my Subaru. Make sure you use the plastic labels, not the paper labels. Print whatever and stick the label on the wire. Then, wrap it with Scotch transparent tape. 3/4" wide if possible. It thinks this is the stuff: Not the translucent crap that allegedly looks clear after it's applied, but the stuff that's clear on the roll. I'll check the product name and number next time I visit Office Max.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

wire markers ! a winner.

the Dymo is a surprise.....now what's needed at that price is a transeaver dymo...point n shoot get the wire and local schematic....then press A for the total effective schematic with problem areas.

at $35

Reply to
avagadro7

Have done all these three. Great little units ...

Warning. Some plastic surfaces interact with labels over time.

I have some labels where the background has darkened, so instead of black on white, it's black on very dark grey.

Weirder, black on yellow has reversed to be dull yellow on brown!

This is not a heat issue, the labelling is on the plastic body of 1/4" jack plugs -- is it the plasticisers?

And also on a white plastic 4-way socket strip, made of flexible plastic, same darkening. Unaffected on hard/brittle strips in the same location.

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Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk 
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Reply to
Mike

Brother makes label products that laminate the label behind the front layer of the lamination. These are their "TZ" tapes. The make a "super flexible" version that can be wrapped around wires. Might still need some clear tape or something to make them stay on forever.

I use one of these for serial # labels and such, so I have the machine already.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

hmmm possible to buy quality wire labels as Kroy with numbering on the labels

peel off label 0001A and affix, write down what 0001A is in the book.

write down where book is....

.
Reply to
avagadro7

I did that at one office building: Before: After: Well, that photo was before I labeled everything. The problem was that it only worked as long as I was personally doing the wiring. When the phone, alarm, sprinkler, cable company, self-installers, etc arrived, they made a huge mess. Asking Ma Bell to "tag" their work seemed to be like asking the installer to perform an un-natural act. I gave up.

Well, if you want quality and a permanent label, I suggest a Kingsley (Norwood) hot stamp machine:

If that's not good enough, there are laser wire warker machines:

or maybe an ink sprayer: You can also use it to apply fake tatoos.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

nice work Dude !

I should bring the van by .....I could buy you dinner....

ok but is there a spool of wire markers FACTORY NUMBERED where the prenumberd wire larker is peeled off n applied to GROUND REAR BACK UP LAMP

the I would record that wire marker 0001B as 'Ground rear....

in the wiring records book

this would appear more mil spec as the factory would produce the entire rig print glue covering.

Reply to
avagadro7

I don't trust gummed adhesive on insulation or sheathing of a cable or wire, so it's a flag-equipped wiretie to start with, and put a label onto the flag. I like Brother P-touch with TZ-tape (it has a transparent cover over the inked letters).

Reply to
whit3rd

Forget it. I'm on a diet of sorts.

Nope. You either mark the wire yourself, or pay someone with a machine to do it for you.

It probably doesn't matter what numbers you put on the wires as long as you can identify the wires. So, tow your van down to the nearest electronic surplus store and dig through the rolls of surplus wire. Most of the stuff is aerospace overstock where the wires are marked and can't be re-used with a different marking. Such pre-marked wires are generally considered useless or ugly, which shouldn't matter much for your application.

It depends on how many wires you want to mark. I can't imagine your recumbent needing very many wires. A vinyl label maker and clear tape should suffice.

If you don't care about the mess you're sure to make, I suggest getting some silk screening mesh, mask off everything except what you want to print, and screen the text with ink and a squeegee. It's kinda tricky to do on anything that's not flat, but still possible.

If you really don't care about making a mess, you could just color code the wire. Or just buy white PVC wire and color your own cables with solvent based dyes:

However, if you want to go high tech and do it thyself, it might be fun to build wire marker from a UV laser and an x-y table. Wire marking lasers use excimer or solid state (Nd:YAG) 200 to 350nm UV lasers. A 450nm blue laser will also sorta work. These lasers are not cheap, but can be found used and abused. Anything about 1.5 watts or more depending on how fast you want to scribble. Get a CNC controlled x-y table, add the laser, and blast away. Don't forget the safety equipment, glasses, interlocks, insurance, fire extinguisher, etc.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

anarchy or regimentation ?

I'll need more digging. Yawl machine guys...pop...pop...pop...pop...

as the wiremen complained of...

a wire tie rig seems dated from a loose tube adhesived off the wire's diameter...

a hangup ...as I've not seen...is plastics vs street level marking chemicals.

vinyl is difficult...immediately look to a fabric adhesived marker with suitable ink. Not UL but we have an extinguisher handy.

synthetic clothing is markable ...with p[potato squeezoin's

we'll be back after the commercial

Reply to
avagadro7

Vinyl is easy, if the glue is any good. The better glues contain a small amount of MEK or other solvent. MEK disolves both the vinyl and the PVC wire insulation slightly, which causes a permanent solvent weld. The catch is that it has a limited shelf life because the MEK is rather volatile. If you want to make your own permanent stick labels, just slop ONE tiny drop of dilluted MEK onto the wire insulation and wrap the vinyl label over it. You'll need to hold it in place until the MEK evaporates, or your fingers dissolve. It's quite permanent, toxic, messy, nasty, smelly, hazardous, and dangerous, but those are minor considerations when you're engaged in the important task of attaching permanent wire labels. Also, be sure to wash your hands before touching anything that has been painted because the residual MEK in your skin pores will leave your fingerprints everywhere. That's bad because you wouldn't want anyone to know who made the mess.

Fabric label tend to absorb liquids and vapors. I've used fabric wire labels and find them lacking. It's not unusual to find a wire closet with all the wire labels sitting on floor. Brady Wire Markers switched from cotton cloth to vinyl cloth some time ago. I haven't tried those yet. The bad news is that they're expensive and the cloth labels are "repositionable" which means they'll fall off without assistance.

Cloth insulated wire? I don't think that will work.

I don't watch commercial TV any more. These days, it's streaming video via Netflix, YouTube, CuriosityStream, Hulu, and such with zero commercials. I haven't seen a commerical on TV in years.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

An X-ray machine I worked on had all white wires. Then I notices that all of the wires had pre-printed numbers written on the wire similar to motors. there was an in-house thingy that had all yellow wires. I notices that t hat used ground for the neutral return. Management would not let me fix it . They said It's been like that for 20 years.

p-touch has been good to me.

I generally like labeling the cables and not their function. An fire alarm panel type thing, I used plastic label clips with designations like 1A2. Cable A from location a to location 2. These were the red PTFE insulated c ables.

I do like the p-touch labels. Just get the supplies from the brother websi te. Cheaper than Staples.

The wire markers have their use when taking something apart.

Aside: At home, I'm slowly wiring the house. Not a whole lot has happened so far except a patch panel - nothing connected. The telco patch panel (paralleled ) is red, All will use CAT6. The patch and room outlets will use inserts to make the RJ45's appear as 6p6c. Two colors for the CAT6.

So, for the most part, I cleaned up existing wiring and used two octopus ca bles to handle power to wall warts,

There's room to put a 1RU switch.

Reply to
Ron D.

Another aside:

What I found to be extremely useful is to mark the ends of wall wart cables and the actual equipment.

The cable end may be marked

5.5/2.1 C+ 5 V / 1A DC

So you have a coax 5.5 mm/2.1 mm center is positive

Separately it's marked something like: Dynex abc USB switch

These are Flag labels.

I put the voltages/current and connector sizes on the equipment too.

I need to go back and add a flag label at the wall wart for what it' connected to especially for my Octopus cables. Then there is the database.

Reply to
Ron D.

A white roll of this for canoe/kayak roof rack covers is in the garage. Trying this with a non toxic glue and a precise edge inking method.

UV Resistant Flagcloth Uncoated Oxford

3.5 oz. per sq yd. UV Resistant 200 Denier. Water repellent finish and superior ultraviolet resistance. The use of high tenacity yarns makes an attractive fabric, while maintaining even dye appearance and good screen printing capabilities.

Uses: Flags, Banners, Jackets, Bags, Tents, Stuff Sacks

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Resistant Flagcloth Uncoated Oxford

Reply to
avagadro7

Not available in camouflage pattern. Find another supplier or just use a plastic camouflage tarp: Incidentally, the camouflage pattern is not to hide your kayak/recumbent from oportunistic thieves, but rather to hide your sloppy workmanship from sewing critics. Beware... they're everywhere.

If this is suppose to act as a kayak/recumbent cover while it's on the vehicle, you're going to need something that is rip-stop and possibly reinforced. It's almost certain that you're going to snag it on a tree branch at some point. With un-reinforced or non rip stop weaves, the "wind" will expand a tear to the full length of the cover.

Also, you'll need a glue that's made for fabric that's not going to melt in the sun or turn to concrete when cold. Look for "waterproof fabric glue" or "heat set fabric adhesive". Common hot melt glue will suffice (barely) as long as it's flexible. If it dries hard, it will crack, crumble, and fall apart. If all you want is a waterproof seam, just some rubberized latex or heat set glue, plus a double or triple needle seam. Plan on wasting some material learning how to do this. Also, test the glue (after it sets) in the fridge or deep freeze to see what happens when it gets cold.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
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Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

AE6KS

the roll here is bright white.

usually Weldwood red on nylon ....eg tent repair

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for wire ID markers ? the wiring is in the van so not toxic is required. I sleep in van then work with birds in the field at sundown/sunup checking behavior patterns with mobile MiFi USGS Earthquakes real time mapping.

Loctite fabric glue might be relatively non toxic in the very small quantit ies needed. The stuff at Walmart. Not construction or outback levels... Wel dwood red does not come apart, Loctite does separate under pressure...but f or a wire marker ?

tried Loctite as a filler around primary wiring...some Pico...running thru nylon tube fluid/air wall fittings finding the Locktite held wiring inplace and sealed out water ...this on pelican boxes sealed with 3M Marine soybea n oil. Should work on uncoated flag cloth.

Flags are expensive.

on the yak or abs canoe....for long exposure trips out west where the sun s hines...the covering is held on with shock cording n strapping...commercial ly developed models available.

now find ink .....

Reply to
avagadro7

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