Rewiring an antique Torchiere lamp.

A few things:

a) That ancient wire used either silk or mercerized cotton for the cloth covering - no sort of insulation or fire-proofing but strictly for appearance. b) Given that you have a splice-box at the knuckle where the switch branches to the three arms, you might use modern cloth-covered wire (not cheap) to there, and standard 105C zip from the switch to the sockets. c) Do make sure that the cord you use is "Listed" if only for insurance purposes. d) I use a length of ball-chain for fishing in old multi-head lamps and chandeliers. It makes the bends easily and will slide of its own weight for insertion.

There is no need for more elaborate means.

Best of luck with it.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Meh, the wiring is unseen just use some modern silicon wire rated for the application.

Hi Peter,

Just so I understand what you're trying to tell me, I see the wiring as described in 4 parts:

Part 1

The main power cord that plugs into the wall and feeds up to the top of the lamp. Would that be standard 18/2 lamp cord?

Part 2

From there, you have all the hot wires tied together which feed:

The Mogul light socket on top

The rotary 3-way switch which operates the three candelabra bulbs. By the way, the rotary 3-way switch has its own built-in wiring.

I forgot to mention an add-on bulb (NOT added on by me) which is taped to the base of the lamp. Picture is here,

Accompanying that add-on bulb is a SPST rotary switch which was placed next to the 3-way candelabra switch at the top of the lamp.

Am I correct in saying that all these branched hot wires will be the same kind of wiring? Will that particular wire be the modern cloth wiring or some other type?

Part 3

Next are the two output wires of the 3-way rotary switch that tie together with the candelabra socket wiring.

The wire from the rotary SPST switch which feeds the bulb at the base of the lamp.

Part 4

All the neutral wires.

Thanks for helping me sort all this out.

One last mention, the center light pole which normally would have one cord going through it will need an extra cord to supply power back to the add-on lamp. The original extra wire running through the pole (which is the same type of wiring that was feeding the candelabra sockets) is the same cord I photographed earlier. I have my doubts whether or not that is UL approved wire.

--
David Farber 
Los Osos, CA

Thank you for your input. :-)

--
David Farber 
Los Osos, CA

OK - a bit more complicated, then.

First piece of advice would be to lose the extra socket and lamp at the bot tom of the fixture. However, if you must use it (and there is no really saf e way to do so), I suggest that you get some epoxy putty and fill in the gn awed area at the base (duplicate the grooves if you wish), smooth out the s ocket (looks like cardboard?) and then use brass paint or some such to mak e it look 'of a piece'. Either way, you can fill in the gnawed area and dup licate the grooves even if you lose the socket.

Then you need to separate your wiring efforts into two categories: That whi ch is pretty - from the wall socket to the lamp base, and that which is ut ilitarian. The pretty wire should be the cloth-covered wire of you choice s uch as (From Amazon):

joxggqPL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The other wire (also listed, and from Amazon):

could be this stuff, go od for 600V. and which will allow will allow you to color-code if you wish . Going back down to the lower socket (again, not recommended), you could twist a pair from this same kit.

When I do this kind of work (we are on our third pre-1900 house), I use bal l-chain for fishing, and I tend to use heat-shrink tubing over the wire-nut s to make sure there is no change of them coming loose. I will also tin the leads that connect to the various sockets so that there are no stray stran ds.

Best of luck with it!

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Hi Peter,

I would definitely like to lose that socket at the bottom of the fixture but when I asked the owner about that possibility, I was told that was the specific reason the lamp was purchased. I'm going to play it safe here and tell him that no matter how pretty it looks, it's not safe. Period.

Regarding this Amazon link:

I see the image but I cannot find the webpage that links to that product.

Thanks for your reply.

--
David Farber 
Los Osos, CA

FYI

Very nice. Thank you!

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David Farber 
Los Osos, CA

Very nice! I have almost the same one in use in my front room daily. It's on a switched outlet. It uses the larger mogul base bulb in the center, I eventually put an adapter in to use a standard medium base bulb. I'll be sure to follow this, because the original wire cored is cracked up and rotten... I honestly shouldn't still have it plugged in as is.

Do NOT tin the leads. The tin will flow under pressure, making the contact unreliable. A perfect starter for sparking and fire...

Arie

I have a couple of 1950's lamps in use. They only have the center mogal-ba sed bulb and they are still availabe at the hardware store down the street. It has the modern zip cord, but a non-polarized plug.

Generally, the stuff used is 18 AWG appliance wire. Teflon insulated insn; t generally used, but probably could be.

My "Plans" are to convert this lamp to a dimmable 6000 lumen mogal base LED lamp and be able to convert back by changing the external "pigtail" that w ill use a CPC connector.

This currently gets way too much use as it illuminates a hospital bed.

Currently, there is a 300W Credenza dimmer with a "LOCATOR" LED on it. Tha t LED follows the lamp intensity inversely.

I have obtained the bulb, a mogal base extender, the dimming module (sold w ith the bulb) and a bunch of other stuff.

The credensa dimmer consists of a triac dimmer circuit, a LED, a slide pot and a switch. It will be canibalized such that the potentiometer exits wit h one wire through the switch. The other 3 leads will go to 3 pin bi-color LED. The potentiometer will got to a PR Electronics module where I will use the alarm setpoints to turn on power to the dimmer. I need to get the right signals out. the 0-10V output has very little current output. and I have to dim the LED reverse acting

The initial design will use one color. With an add-on option the PR module can be controlled with RS-485, thus the potential use of the other color a nd the "potential" for home automation. Maybe, something like use another color when the lamp is controlled by the home automation system and just mo ving the slider changes it back to "manual".

I think it would be "neat" if the lamp responded to touch. e..g. if an uns uspecting sole reached for the switch near the lamp, the lamp would turn on . Maybe three levels of on. This is wishful thinking.

e.g.

If one uses the correct solder (37/63), that does not happen. Further, those clamps should be TIGHT!

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Some background info on my statement:

IPC-A-610 Rev E, page 4-10, Section 4.1.4.2, states under defect conditions, 6th bullet down, ?Stranded wire is tinned (not shown)? this is a defective condition for any wire going under any threaded fastener. IPC/WHMA-A-620, page 4-10, Section 4.4, same criteria as J-STD-001 as above.

While wires may be crimped, they should not be heavily tinned with solder prior to installation in a screw terminal, since the soft metal will cold flow, resulting in a loose connection and possible fire hazard. Screw connectors sometimes come loose if not done up tightly enough at fitting time. Verifying adequate tightening torque requires calibrated installation tools and proper training. In the UK, all screw connectors on fixed mains installations are required to be accessible for servicing, for this reason.

Also, the technique is rejected by European certification organizations for mains connections. Which I fully support, after finding and repairing lots of bad connections that were done this way.

A modern workaround is using spring clamping instead of screw clamping. No problem with cold flow there. And yes, THEN the tinning of stranded wire is even preferred by me...

Arie

Thank you for that, and as a routine, I do not tin wires when connecting to circuit boards with screw-down connectors. But I think that you are missin g the context here.

g

This is a device similar to those in question here. Often they are in close quarters with tight clearances. The purpose of tinning fine-stranded wirin g is to reduce the possibility of a stray strand getting where it should no t. The proper method is to tin the wire to 'tame' the strands, then treat i t as if it is a solid wire by crimping it around the screw, then screwing i t down - TIGHT. This is not for corrosion or even for longevity (but the l atter is a fortunate by-result).

As I understand it, and if you are in Europe, Wire Nuts are not permitted, and these sorts of things are used routinely in household wiring:

YEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE (Chock-Block connectors).

They are not NEC approved here as free connectors (a wire nut is a 'free' c onnector as it is not screwed down), nor would I tin wires into such were t hey an option (and screwed down).

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Peter and Arie,

Earlier Peter l "High-quality *tinned* copper inner core, can maintained copper wire for a long time does not oxidize .protecting them from corrosion and making it easier to solder."

Does this tinned copper wire have any relevance to your discussion about tinning wires?

Thanks for your reply.

--
David Farber 
Los Osos, CA

I see your problem. No way to use stranded wire there without at least tinning the tip. In my youth (I'm 68 now) small eyelets were used for such problems, wire twisted around it, then the eyelet pressed close. I cannot even find an example picture any more...

I'm in Europe (Netherlands). Your construction here still appears in wall outlets and wall switches, but is only allowed for solid wire. In equipment, like terminal blocks on switching power supplies, I always use a crimp terminal on the wire. All mains connected stranded wire must be terminated in a bus with a screw, like in the terminal block you mention:

They are officially only allowed here between the solid wires sticking from the pipe in the ceiling, and the stranded wires going into the lamp. Not allowed for solid to solid mains wiring (or any other mains connected use). In Dutch, a chandelier is a 'kroonluchter' hence the name here is 'kroonsteentje' (chandelier stone, since it used to be made from porcelain).

Thanks for the insights!

Arie

Found something that looks like it, but not for electricity of course:

The inner diameter used to be 3.2mm, fit for our usual M3 bolts.

Arie

David - the discussion with Arie is peripheral to the pointed wire materia l. That material is factory-plated with a very tin tin coating. He and I ar e generally in agreement for electronics work, but in this case, we are dea ling with practicalities and materials that are not specific to his concern s. "Tinning" in your context means using a small amount of solder at the en ds of the wire to prevent loose strands. Then, crimp the wire around the sc rew before tightening - hard. 37/63 solder (eutectic) has no plastic state, so you do not have to be concerned about crumbling solder if the wires mov e during the cooling period.

I have done a lot of these over time, including one 16-lamp (candelabra-bas e) crystal chandelier in our present house. That took nearly 12 hours of wo rk to get just right - and including color-coding and removing many of the crystals for safe-keeping. I learned the ball-chain trick from a restorer b ack in the 1980s when he showed me how he did it. Did you know that one can still get the 'fake candle-wax' socket covers? and in multiple styles? h ttps://i.etsystatic.com/13547198/r/il/a525df/1815436283/il_1140xN.181543628

3_78js.jpg One more thing on that particular chandelier ( I wish I had a picture, but I am at work). It is a sad story, but when we purchased our ho use in 2008, it had been empty for 2 years as the previous occupants lost i t to foreclosure. They had sold off all the appliances, some of the vintage hardware and other strange things, but not the three fairly massive chande liers. When we had our insurance inspection, the inspector put a rider on o ur policy calling them out as we had the 'full-in-kind' restoration option. I won't state the imputed value, other than I thought it was absurd at the time. Not so much now.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA