Old garage light fixture with no sign of existing switch

My intuition is that the switch is in (or at) the house. You would want to turn on the light before walking out of the house, and turn it off only after you got back in.

What makes you think the contractor made any notes, let alone a wiring diagram? You've watched too many episodes of Mission: Impossible.

On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:02:28 -0500, Jim ??o??:

I have a detached garage and the light switch is in the hallway leading to the basement near the sides entrance of the house where the garage is located.

Jim The only sure way is to be sure the power is off and then take it all apart and put it back together again. Be prepared to lose and replace some cable/wire.

My best guess is that the problem is in the box feeding the fixture in question. Also do yourself a favor and replace the pictured box with a bigger one. At least twice the size. Home depot will have everything.

Forget the contractor. There probably never was a wiring diagram and all involved are dead.

Bob AZ

Hi!

My guess is that it would be switched with one of the other fixtures you mentioned...and that there is another problem, possibly with the fixture that does not work. Given that it seems to be an outdoor fixture, this seems very plausible.

While you might find building plans, I'd say that it is fairly unlikely to expect that you will find wiring plans beyond what (if anything) is printed inside the fuse or circuit breaker box.

William

A general thanks to all who replied. I know this was a long shot for an online question.

The main mystery is that the only visible switches control the inside garage light (seen in photo) and the light outside the small garage door. It is not a detached garage, as someone implied.

If one of those two wall switches (inside the garage) also controls the high outside garage light, it wasn't a very practical setup - to have two lights on at once, inside and out. Is that a known common configuration from the old days?

Taking apart the wires in the box isn't practical at the moment (long story) but I'm sure some answer lies therein. I might end up bypassing the existing wire entirely and routing a temp. wire from a regular wall plug.

Jim

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I don't know how things are done in the US, but I have yet to hear of an electrical contractor making such a diagram for a residential install, and even if he did, you would have Buckleys chance of ever finding it unless it was in the house.

I would consider it also very likely that the contractor and others involved would now be dead, or pretty close to that state.

If you think that the wire is brittle - GET IT REPLACED - otherwise you have serious risk of an electrical fire. especially if any insulation fell off, or was in the bottom of that box when you opened it.

At that point, get a switch installed for the light in question, and be done with it.

That was my point. There would be no point in controlling the outside light for the garage from /within/ the garage.

You need to look in the house for a switch that doesn't seem to do anything.

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If you had the original blueprints for the house, it should have all the original switches, lights and outlets shown, and there should be a dotted line from each switch to the light fixture it operates. Now, there is no guarantee that the contractor followed the plans, and there could easily have been changes made later, but that should, at least, provide a clue. Clearly the box pictured has been altered some time after original construction since the [what appears to be] 3 wire cable is of a later manufacture from the original black Romex.

Neil S.

Here goes, this is a long shot answer Jim but do you by chance happen to have a switch in what is or was the living room that seems disconnected?

It was fairly common in old wiring to put the switch for the garage in a cluster with the living room and front porch lighting switches even occasionally wiring the garage and porch lights to the same switch.

Also something that you may have missed, the oulet may have been fully powered all of the time and a screw in pull chain switch ( these were very common ) used to turn the light on and off. Look for an inoperable fuse or breaker in your fuse box.

Gnack

Gnack Nol wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mailinator.com:

I should have noted that I'd already checked for "phantom" switches, and there ARE two in the kitchen, but nothing happens. It's possible that one of them was supposed to control the garage exterior light, but there's an independent fault. I should try replacing those switches.

A pull-chain was one of the first things I looked for. The garage is cluttered and may yet have more hiding places.

Jim

KR wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

Likely dead or festering. It often amazes me that half-century old stuff lasts as long as it does, especially wire insulation. The main leads coming out of the fixture on the garage ceiling have a cloth type of outer insulation, but seem hardy. Makes you wonder how modern materials will ultimately hold up.

Not so much ready to crumble, but jammed into the box in such a way that I wasn't sure I could shove them back in without metal-fatigue. I think I'll replace the box with a bigger one and see where everything leads to.

I have limited jurisdiction over modifying this house; doing casual repairs for other people. Mainly looking for best guesses or old-timer knowledge of switch locations. Some things obviously can't be answered online.

Jim

What I was refering to is the type of screw in one that goes between the socke and bulb usuall with two outlets on it. Those were most common.

I'd guess the two switches that you located are in some way related to this fixture probably one was to control the garage door or some ouside light fixture and one for the inside light.

Old switches are likely to develop bad contacts that will not conduct even when the switch still clicks.

Above all be very careful if you decide to replace the switches it's best to turn off the mains until you are through.

Gnack

snipped-for-privacy@u36g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

ng

Have seen low voltage plastic coated wire in 1950's equipment that is still serviceable. A lot of other stuff amazingly holds up well too, as long as it hasnt been abused or corroded.

Capacitors are a different story.

rs

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Old Australian house wiring had a cloth covering, but a rubber insulation underneath. (then the wire in the centre of course)

This rubber would harden with age, and and movement of the wire would result in the rubber then cracking, breaking into pieces and falling away from the wire. This would ultimately result in arcing and usually a fire, if in a metal conduit (commonplace in the old days) then this would be the thing it shorted to.

The parts shown do not look like AUS electrical fittings, so the wire shown may be better or worse than I described.

I would recommend that this install be checked over by a qualified electrician and a rewire done if needed.

Another hint with the switches, you might want to take out any switches nearby, take a good look inside the cavity and see if there is an extra wire not connected.

Possible a home handyman replaced a broken double switch with a single (that they had on hand) and didn't put that wire on as they were "going to get around to it later" and never did ?

May also be switched on with a second light, and the wire came loose on the back of the switch or something too ? Finally check for mains voltage on the wires on the back of the socket (turn on all light switches first). Its not impossible that the socket itself is somehow faulty.

It is hard to imagine an electrician leaving a light unconnected.

Hi!

Basically, yes. I've seen a lot of old barns, sheds and garages that were set up this way...you'd turn on a certain inside light, usually the "primary" ceiling light and the outdoor light would also come on. Many of these were pre-existing structures that were electrified sometime in the 1930s-1960s. (Of course, I am in a rural area, so that may make things unique.)

I suppose that the assumption was made that if one light was on, the user probably wanted both, as if they were taking something out or putting it in. It was probably also just that extra little bit cheaper.

William

Here's a long term follow-up for anyone who recalls this old thread or might stumble onto it trying to fix a similar problem.

It turned out that the single inside garage wall switch DID indeed control the outside and inside garage lights simultaneously. Kind of an odd setup, but it can be mitigated with a separate switch inside if you don't want both lights on at once.

It seems to have been an unlucky coincidence of a test bulb burning out right after being screwed in (outside), giving the false impression that the switch was unrelated. That, combined with being told it hadn't worked in decades!

We just got around to checking it again (became a high priority) and the lesson is to double-check a test bulb, even if it worked minutes before. Never assume, in other words!

Jim

That's why those no-contact testers are so handy!

That stuff does happen, doesn't it.

I can see it wired that way too, owner or electrician too lazy or not skilled enough to wire in another switch.

Thanks, Jim... that was a bit of a puzzler!

Or (worded in a slightly different way)... *do* assume that Murphy will show up at the most inconvenient of times!