Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor

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Hello Folks.  I need some help in identifying a ceramic capacitor on an RF  
signal generator from the 50's.  The capacitor is off the power supply.  Th
e shape is a circular disk about 1cm in diameter with the following marking
s - HI-Q 2X .01.  Any help greatly appreciate.

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
  snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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The capacitor is off the power supply. The shape is a circular disk about 1cm in diameter with the following
markings - HI-Q 2X .01.  

** Is is dual cap with 3 legs like this one ?  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1960s-Ceramic-Disk-Circle-D-Capacitor-2x-01-uf-1-4kv-Guitar-Tone-02-/123856474984

A pic would be useful.  


.....   Phil  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Thanks Phil.  The capacitor has two legs, here's a picture of it.  -Norm

http://printque.us/capacitor.png

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:35:21 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
I should mention that this capacitor is in a Precision signal generator, model E-200-C.

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
  snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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That cap is in the AC supply circuit  -  right?  
See bottom of this page:  

https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t36%3692

So it's a high voltage, ceramic cap.

Good replacement would be a 0.01uF, 2kV ceramic like this:  

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/CK45-E3DD103ZYVNA/?qs=eSfX1CQlHqqfWLOcs5KSTQ%3D%3D

Many other sources.  


.........  Phil  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
 Phil Allison wrote:
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**  Be nice idea to fit a 3- core power lead and earth the thing while you are at it.  



.....    Phil  





Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Phil - Appreciate the input and link to Mouser.  I've contemplated replacin
g with a 3-prong cord but there seems to be some who say a two prong is bet
ter for a sound generator as to not pick up any interference off the ground
 from other devices.  I'm a hobbyist so my depth of knowledge isn't so deep
 as to accept or refute their claims so I've just left it for now.  Cheers.
  -Norm

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 1:00:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
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QlHqqfWLOcs5KSTQ%3D%3D  
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 are at it.  
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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t36%3692    

https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/e-200-schematic.jpeg

Might help in the restoration process.  

On the 2/3 conductor line cord:  If you look at the schematic - there are t
wo (2) 0.01uF safety caps in series with a ground between them - which is t
he same common ground throughout the system. And, by the way, those are X-t
ypes as the are between the hot and the neutral.  I will not presume that t
he common ground is also the case even though that is both very likely and  
common, but you can check that easily yourself - is there continuity betwee
n the case and the chassis? If so, go ahead and install a 3-wire cord, grou
nding to the case. If not do some more checks before going to three wires s
o that you do not cause any damage. Also, when the device is in operation,  
is there any leakage (VOM on AC, case-to-good-ground: Any voltage showing?)
?  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Peter Wanker Rides Again:

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two (2) 0.01uF safety caps in series with a ground between them - which is  
the same common ground throughout the system. And, by the way, those are X-
types as the are between the hot and the neutral.

** Weicky has wanked himself blind.

Those two cap are  *OBVIOUSLY*  connected from hot AC wires to ground.    

Y class caps with not common back in the day.

......  Phil  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Wrong again. Once  more the drongo from down under, the official village idiot of this venue has outdone itself.  

Read the schematic. The caps do cross from hot to neutral. That they are *also* grounded does not change the issue. What happens when/if the ground fails?  

Oh, both X and Y capacitors have existed in common use since very roughly 1926, with research in ceramic materials starting in the mid-teens, perfected in the very early 1920s. I know that Australia is a technical wasteland, but really!  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
  snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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 there seems to be some who say a two prong is better for a sound generator as to not pick up any  
interference off the ground from other devices. I'm a hobbyist so my depth of knowledge isn't so
deep as to accept or refute their claims so I've just left it for now. Cheers. -Norm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Warning:  

The case of the unit will be floating at * 60volts AC*  with no safety ground attached.  

That AC voltage ( with plenty of noise) will be coupled via  0.02 uF into the ground of any earthed reciever.
Likely make it hum and buzz audibly.

Your RF gene has only a 400Hz output for convenience.  

Earthing it is way safer.  


......   Phil  

  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
For the sake of accurate info, I mistakenly reported that this capacitor ha
s 2 two legs, upon closer inspection, it has three legs - two outer legs at
tach to the the chokes and center one attached to the ground terminal of th
e copper shield that attaches to the signal generator's chassis.  Sorry for
 the earlier misreported response.  Cheers.  -Norm

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:43:50 PM UTC-5, World wide137 wrote:
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===  
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n RF signal generator from the 50's.  
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ut 1cm in diameter with the following  
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2x-01-uf-1-4kv-Guitar-Tone-02-/123856474984  
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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
----------------------------------

** How come the third lead is *missing* in your pic?  

   So the one I sent you a pic of  *was*  RIGHT !!  
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has 2 two legs, upon closer inspection, it has three legs - two outer legs  
attach to the the chokes and center one attached to the ground terminal of  
the copper shield that attaches to the signal generator's chassis. Sorry fo
r the earlier misreported response. Cheers. -Norm
Quoted text here. Click to load it
  
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===  
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 an RF signal generator from the 50's.  
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bout 1cm in diameter with the following  
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r-2x-01-uf-1-4kv-Guitar-Tone-02-/123856474984  
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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Phil - Based on the angle that I looked at it the first time, the center le
ad was tucked under going to the ground pin on the terminal strip and I mis
sed it.  Yes, you were correct with the eBay photo you sent.  Cheers.  -Nor
m

On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 6:33:23 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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r has 2 two legs, upon closer inspection, it has three legs - two outer leg
s attach to the the chokes and center one attached to the ground terminal o
f the copper shield that attaches to the signal generator's chassis. Sorry  
for the earlier misreported response. Cheers. -Norm  
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m  
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====  
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on an RF signal generator from the 50's.  
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 about 1cm in diameter with the following  
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tor-2x-01-uf-1-4kv-Guitar-Tone-02-/123856474984  
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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
  snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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**  Nice to have that one cleared up finally.  
  
......   Phil  

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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
That looks very much like an older ceramic safety capacitor. 2X today would be written as X2.  That being "X-type, Ceramic Class 2". Their purpose is to minimize EMI/RFI interference - something that makes sense in an SG.

The X means that it is to go between the line-cord leads (hot and neutral).  2X means it will tolerate a peak voltage pulse of 2,500 while in operation.  

More explanation here:   https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/safety-capacitor-class-x-and-class-y-capacitors/

Mouser-available Vishay-made device here:  https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/427/564r565r-1762222.pdf    

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Peter - Thank you for the explanation, I had a heck of a time looking for t
his on Google.  I guess, I wasn't sure on how to search for it.  Searching  
for what was printed on the actual capacitor did not bring up much.  Here i
s a picture of the whole thing.  This capacitor is run across the the two c
hokes.  Cheers.  -Norm

http://printque.us/IMG_5103.jpg


On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 8:47:57 AM UTC-5, Peter W. wrote:
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ld be written as X2. That being "X-type, Ceramic Class 2". Their purpose is
 to minimize EMI/RFI interference - something that makes sense in an SG.  
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). 2X means it will tolerate a peak voltage pulse of 2,500 while in operati
on.  
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s/safety-capacitor-class-x-and-class-y-capacitors/  
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t/2/427/564r565r-1762222.pdf  
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Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
Norm:

A few things:

a) There are many versions of this unit over the years, so the differences between the schematic and what you have are no surprise.  
b) There is no reason to remove the tubular ceramic caps - I believe that the restoration page does mention that. They tend to be pretty stable over the years.  
c) I would restore to the schematic as shown:  
http://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/img_5750_med.jpeg
d) I see where the ground lug is riveted to the copper cover - and that the cover appears to be sheet-metal-screwed to the case. If so, a 3-wire cord is good, with the ground wire going to the center lug of the three.  

Take your time. That is a 'popular' unit within the hobby, and worth the effort if you want vintage service gear to go with the vintage radios.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
You are correct, Peter, that is how the copper cover interacts with the cas
e.  There has indeed been several updates to this model, I have 4 different
 schematics, all similar but slightly different.  Of the four, none matches
 my version perfectly.  Thanks again for you input, they've been very helpf
ul.  Cheers.  -Norm

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 9:48:18 AM UTC-5, Peter W. wrote:
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s between the schematic and what you have are no surprise.  
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 the restoration page does mention that. They tend to be pretty stable over
 the years.  
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teve/_Media/img_5750_med.jpeg  
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he cover appears to be sheet-metal-screwed to the case. If so, a 3-wire cor
d is good, with the ground wire going to the center lug of the three.  
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effort if you want vintage service gear to go with the vintage radios.
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