Do you personally use a plastic solderless breadboard?

Do you personally use a plastic solderless breadboard for your prototypes?

formatting link

If not, what do you use for your prototypes?

TIA.

--
Don Kuenz
Reply to
Don Kuenz
Loading thread data ...

NO!

Parts soldered to gold-plated FR4.

formatting link

formatting link

--
John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
John Larkin

That depends, a lot, on what is being prototyped, the packaging of the components, performance expected from the circuit, etc.

E.g., too many leads makes many microcomputer (not microCONTROLLER) designs impractical to prototype in that manner. Likewise, high operating frequencies, low supply voltages (i.e., poor noise margins), high power signals, etc. all can make that sort of breadboarding more hassle than it is worth.

[And, a lot of stuff can more readily be *simulated* -- if the purpose of the breadboard is "design verification"]

OTOH, a slow analog circuit is ideal for that sort of approach. Just be aware of the limitations that come with it (as well as connections that can be flakey, come loose, etc.)

If you're ever going to *do* anything with the design (i.e., commit it to foil), then it is usually better to just prototype

*in* foil. I've taken this approach for more than 30 years, now, and it has served me well (though it gets more expensive to make the prototypes as packaging has evolved).

Consider: if you will eventually commit the design to foil, then there will come a time when you have to make your first

*foil* prototype(s). And, you'll spend some time troubleshooting layout/routing errors, mechanical interference issues, etc. So, you'll probably need to turn the crank, again (I dislike releasing "cobbled" boards with softwire patches, cut foils, etc.).

With that in mind, let your *first* prototype be the *foil* prototype and deal with design/layout/routing issues in that first shot -- skipping one iteration (ideally). This has the added benefit that you can (relatively easily) create a second copy of that first prototype -- not that easy with other approaches!

[I.e., maybe you want to play with the design a bit and risk butchering the *one* prototype in the process]

Of course, you have to be reasonably confident in the design before you begin!

Reply to
Don Y

Is this one of those surveys in advance of one of those kickstarter campaigns? I seem to recall filling one out months ago, but I can't remember if it really was related to breadboarding. I know the people behind the survey had no real idea of the market.

And then, just last week, I saw something about a kickstarter campaign of a little plastic gizmo that amounted to a microUSB connector with leads that fit the breadboard. Have we dumbed things down that much? Forty years ago, when those breadboards were new and I got one, I'd just wire some bits of wire to things that didn't fit into the breadboard holes. No need to buy something.

That said, one uses what fits the situation.

Those white breadboards are great for ICs since they are layed out for ICs. They aren't so great for discrete components.

So you put your IC breadboarding on the white breadboards, and then hou use scraps of copper circuit board for the rest, soldering to the copper when you need a ground connection, and keeping everything in the air above the board. Works fine for breadboarding, you can use components salvaged fro something with small leads, or (if the circuit allows it) use parts without cutting their leads, so they can be reused later. I used the same piece of circuit board for years, it's even better after a bit of use since the solder is already on the board, you just need to heat it a bit, maybe add a bit of solder, and solder the component lead. This arragnement makes it really easy to change things, or scrap it all. Perfboard is lousy for making changes.

If you build compactly, you can just make the "breadboard" the finished product, hide it behind a panel somewhere.

Michael

Reply to
Michael Black

I use PCBs for prototyping. There are ways to get them inexpensively if you aren't in a hurry.

If I'm in a hurry it means I am being paid for the work and the costs of a quicker prototype is part of my quote.

--

Rick
Reply to
rickman

I occasionally use one of these for simple and low frequency stuff:

formatting link

ChesterW

Reply to
ChesterW

Never. Dead bug all the way, with SMD breakout boards and some uC/CPLD/interface boards from vendors.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Depends on the nature of the project. For some things, these are fine - if you don't loan them out to idiots and are not one yourself. I used to maintain a labful of them, and we had to treat them as largely disposable due to idiocy making them disfunctional after a relatively short time. My personal one, bought new, has held up much longer.

Many other options for things where the stray capacitance of these is a problem have been discussed in the group in the past. Those are generally of either the "build up sections of insulator and copper on top of a copper-clad board" or "cut islands into a copper-clad board" flavor. When Mr. Larkin is diverted from politics long enough to post about electronics he often has links to pictures of this sort of thing.

Perfboard with or without little copper rings is another option for some types of work, and you can sometimes even make the little copper rings work with 3-terminal surface mount devices, since through-hole devices are becoming scarcer.

Some types of things you simply have to spin a board to prototype effectively, especially with the rise of surface-mount and the shrinkage of pin-pitch.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by 
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
Reply to
Ecnerwal

The best intentions often don't quite result in a neat breadboard:

I have a small collection of those white breadboards and bags of jumpers. That last time I used them was about 20 years ago for a simple low frequency logic circuit. They're useless for anything over a few MHz, or a few amps. Screwing around with all the little jumper connections takes more time than building a "dead bug" circuit on a PCB. The only real advantage to using one of those white breadboards is that there's no soldering involved. However, I can solder, so that's not much of a benefit.

Dead bug or 3D bug on a PCB. For discrete components, a single sided PCB with the copper layer on top acting as a ground. Components are mounted on the PCB using drilled holes. I use a small router bit or end mill to clear out the ground plane around un-grounded leads. Interconnections are done on the unclad bottom of the PCB using plastic sleeves over component leads.

For SMT, I use small carrier PCB's to bring out the leads so that they can be soldered. They're also handy for easily replacing the SMT device after I blow it up.

For RF prototypes, I either etch a PCB approximation of the strip lines, or pay the price and have the PCB fabricated. Ocassionally, I'll build up the strip lines using copper tape on a single sided PCB. Xacto knife to make changes and fix mistakes.

The uglier the breadboard, the better it works.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

That's so beautiful that it belongs in an art museum after you finish your prototype! It seems that SMT makes solderless breadboard a thing of the past.

--
Don Kuenz
Reply to
Don Kuenz

Although your approach requires more time and effort up front, it ought to speed things along later and create a thoroughly thought out design.

--
Don Kuenz
Reply to
Don Kuenz

I've done something similar. I've used a nylon breadboard to prototype, then migrated all components to a breadboard perfboard, and finally hid the whole contraption in a bud box. ;) What goes on inside the bud box, stays inside the bud box.

--
Don Kuenz
Reply to
Don Kuenz

This may be the only way to prototype high density SMT.

--
Don Kuenz
Reply to
Don Kuenz

That was my approach until I read _Troubleshooting Analog Circuits_ by Pease. For solderless breadbroads Pease recommends perfboard and Digikey A208 and A209.

--
Don Kuenz
Reply to
Don Kuenz

Are you sure you want to follow Bob Pease's example?

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Certainly for anything with higher pin counts it is. I've seen untold numbers of folks who hand solder QFN devices on adapter boards and certainly QFPs and similar are no real problem. But with the higher pin counts adapters are just too difficult.

I don't typically do designs where there is a lot of uncertainly in the basic design. If there is much uncertainty I do it a different way, like by wiring eval boards together.

You have to plan on two spins of the board though as there is almost always something that will need changed. Still, PCBs are a lot cheaper than they used to be.

--

Rick
Reply to
rickman

It really depends on what your goals are and what you are doing. Having "early foil" is often a win -- it lets manufacturing take a look at what will (eventually, in some form) be coming down the road. It lets them buy into the design at an earlier stage instead of feeling like it is just *dropped* in their laps while the marketing folks clamor for shipped product to satisfy orders, etc.

It also lets you play with a design in ways that would be too tedious with other implementations: lift foils, add components, connectors, test points, etc. It's one thing to trash a board and "expense" the components that were on it; quite another thing to deal with all the labor lost on a "one off" breadboard!

[I had a colleague "debug" a motor driver with the smoke-n-smell technique. While the boss wasn't pleased with the number of components that gave up the ghost in the process, he was *much* happier knowing a new board would only set him back about an hour in labor costs!]
Reply to
Don Y

This is my favorite, but I did it on non-gold-plated FR4, and it quickly tarnished.

formatting link

The copperclad breadboards allow really fast, high-current stuff. And you can write on them, and keep them for future reference.

I find them (live bug!) easier to understand, too. The solderless things confuse me, and dead bug makes me count backwards.

--
John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
John Larkin

This:

formatting link

It's a Dolby SR prototype of some sort.

Reply to
Cydrome Leader

Yeah, like I said, I always do PCB from the start. This one just has a few more white wires than usual. Good thing he had all those conveniently located vias. lol

--

Rick
Reply to
rickman

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.