Black and While programs on Color Tv

Lobotomies work better, and only need to be done, once. :(

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You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid? on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

That would depend on the color demodulator used in the TV. A green tint was a common problem in early TVs when the color killer failed, or the burst was left on.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid? on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

For those who want to delve into the theory its worth remembering that to conserve bandwidth, the green signal is not included in the chroma carrier - its reconstituted by subtracting the sum of the red & blue signals from the luma to obtain a value for green.

The single most important feature being that the luma signal was not modified so it maintained compatibility with B&W sets.

In joking, I always referred to PAL as, "Phase Always Loose" -- NTSC was, "Never True; Sh**ty Color". There was one for SECAM, but I can't remember what it was.

Tom P. near Albuquerque

"Stupid Engineering Crap (Also Merde)"

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That was NTSC issue fixed in the '70s.

We were watching TCM last Sunday when they were running fragments (because that's all that remains) of silent B/W movies some of which were 'tinted' with the blueish or brownish look. They call it 'art'. I call it crap but it was not a burst phase error. If there is no chroma (the definition of B/W) the phase wouldn't mean a thing. The OP says all other color is normal (though I have seen some TV's that were dreadful when the owner thought it was great.) so perhaps he found one of these tinted B/W films.

I can say the Samsung DLP and all the LCDs we have do excellent B/W.

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That NTSC hue issue was fixed in the '70s and never showed up again. I know 'Hue' controls that were never touched because it wasn't a problem. What DID drift was SCH phase but this does not show up as a color hue error. It shows up as small horizontal shifts (up to 180 nS) at edit points. Early Sony machines were bad on this score but later models corrected it. The RCA TR-800 was hideous on this issue. Set it at 12 noon and you better check it by 12:30 and likely need to adjust it by 1 pm. RCA never fixed it but the engineers at Action Video in Hollywood sorted it out. Set it on Jan 1 and you might want to check it on the 4th of July. Ironically, the chip used to fix the RCA machine was invented at RCA.

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I agree you do get used to the 50 Hz flicker. I've worked with PAL in Hollywood for 17 years.

G=B2

That's not what I was talking about.

PAL's high-brightness flicker problem is caused by a combination of it's very low interlace rate and the human eye's sensitivity to periodic variations in light intensity, especially at high levels of brightness.

The actual interlace rate (the rate at which a specific "pixel" repeats with the exact same amplitude and phase) is, for NTSC, half the frame rate -- say, a tad below 15 Hz. (Don't forget that the color subcarrier is also interlaced). Due to it's extra phase alternation (the "P" of "PAL"), the actual interlace rate for PAL is *one quarter* of its frame rate, or 6.25 Hz.

NTSC's flicker rate is high enough that it's just not very noticeable, while PAL's is well below the flicker fusion rate, and is easily noticeable.

After a while, "high-end" PAL sets were offered which did not exhibit the flicker problem, but (unlike NTSC's hue problem) it was not eliminated so much as obscured by considerably more complex (and expensive) signal processing.

Isaac

I don't think so. For DVDs, "NTSC" or "PAL" does not exist (or, does not

*need* to exist), at any point in the signal chain prior to the final video output portion of the DVD player, and whatever performance it has, won't vary from one part of a disk to another.

The effect you speak of is most likely due to the fact that the supplemental stuff just didn't get the same degree of attention when color correcting the film sources.

Isaac

Although about 90% of all silent films have been lost, many exist in full versions. (Believe it or not, 50% of all sound films are believed to be lost. Most of these were probably from small studios.)

It's called "sepia". Tinting was common, used to establish mood. Kodak made fine-grained release films with a tinted base. Tinting ended with the introduction of sound.

It was standard when color was not available. Think about the fact that the film itself isn't "realistic".

This is true in terms of the way NTSC and PAL are designed/defined, but I'm not sure it's true in practice.

Yes, of course. "Bat Masterson" was printed on sepia stock, "Sea Hunt" was printed on blue, etc, etc, etc.

I've owned color TVs since 1974, and I simply don't remember adjusting the hue control (incorrectly called tint on many sets).

It should be pointed out that a "true" phase error is a differential (that is, non-minimum) phase error. Readjusting the hue control to get the fleshtones correct pushes other colors in the wrong direction.

I've noticed over the years that people tend to adjust the hue control for slightly greenish flesh tones. Don't know why.

Whoops. That should have been non-linear. So easy to get confused...