Silly Electric motor improvement

Genius!

[Aside........"Eh?"]

Si

Ferrites are brittle, lousy heat conductors, and more expensive than the materials you propose to replace them with.

Mark L. Fergerson

In which case, the idea will be adopted by the major car manufacturers forthwith. ;-)

-- Stuart

If I read him right, he's only suggesting a thin layer of ferrite to reduce the gap between the stator and rotor hence increasing the force. None of your points actually affect that aspect at all.

However, the idea that electric motors are not *already* made with the tightest reliable tolerance available strikes me as pretty unlikely...

Sorry dude, sombody else has already invented the ironless rotor motor, either as a printed disk rotor or as a cage rotor(looks like a cup,made of copper and glue only). They are used for very high speed low enertia applications. The disk rotor for exsample is at full speed in about

10 milliseconds, and an ideal component in servomotor applications.

The thin ferrite layer is to replace all the iron, there is no need for it. Think like a capacitor the dielectric is only between the plates. The ferrite only needs to be between the two layers of conductors and to embed the conductors in it.

>

That is not a suprise we all make iron less motors at school in the 2 grade. Like everyone else I've made dozens of them.

The very simple cage motor is also well known and I really fail to see why such complicated windings are used. This type with ferrite used as described would make a very cheap, light motor.

The actual invention is the use of ferrite (not new) and its distribution only between the two layers of conductors and embeding the conductors in it. (I've not seen this anywhere).

Chris.

All you need to do now is make one, prove it works, patent it worldwide, get manufacturing licences sorted out, and retire to Bermuda. No problem.

Steve.

Contrary to popular folklore, in the U.S., at least, you don't even need to make one (the requirement for a working model went away decades ago); you need only to convince a patent examiner that it will work.

--
St. John
God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean.
                -Albert Einstein

In conventional motors the magnetic material is behind the conductors. the large mass of iron is needed to carry the amount of magnetic field produced by the high currents in the rotor.

if you put an unbroken layer of ferrite in front of the conductors it will shield them from the magnetic filed on the other side of the ferrite, this will make the motor less efficient.

--

Bye.
   Jasen

get

Way too late as Google will tell you.....

See (for example)...

Quote: ThinGap's modern electromotive coil technology establishes a power standard for DC brush and brushless motors, generators, and actuators. The modern coreless circular copper coil increases copper density in the magnetic gap. This coil eliminates problems inherent in iron core and wire wound motors.

Photo

There are probably some use for ferrite in the "ironless" rotors to improve their efficiency, but what you are suggesting is probably not going to work (with currently available metal alloys and processing techniques). Ferrites have lower permeability than iron.

For high efficiency the magnetic circuit has to be as short as possible. To carry the same magnetic field would take more ferrite material than iron in the same application. The obvious choice would be to use more ferrite, but then the windings have to cover more area and copper losses, size, weight, and expense go up.

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There is no need for the magnetic circuit as the magnetic field does not exist, it is a ficticious field that is the consequence of special relativity and electrons moving relative to fixed charges in the conductors and in other conductors.

The concept of the magnetic field is false. Chuck it in the bin.

There are different ferrites and by using a smaller amount of high permeabilty material then you have a lighter motor. You can use Barium Titanate as it is a high permittivity material and that also improves the force over a vaccuum. There is a numerical conversion between the permaabilty and permittivity it is just related by a constant multiplier. I think it is c.

Chris.

There must be some hysteresis loss in the ferrite. Is the mass of the ferrite enough to keep it from being damaged by the heat? Most of the ferrites I am familiar with are somewhat lossy.

And that is why soft iron is used instead of ferrite.

I have very little knowledge of the hystresis loss of ferrite but there are several ferrites but the hysteresis loss could well be a problem. I only thought of the eddy currents. Another material is dust soft iron embeded in a resin matrix. However the principle of only putting the high permeablity material between the layers conductors and embed them in it is the only relevent point.

Chris.

QM says otherwise

what do you intend to replace it with,

hopefully whatever you replace it with can explain the operation of a solenoid, if not it has little chance of being useful in motor design.

Bye. Jasen

No, it is C++ or better, C#.

Troll bait.

OK there is no magnetic field. It follows that there is no need for high permeability materials. Why use any ferrite? There is no field.

There will always be some "designer iron" (magnetic material) that will do a better job than what is currently used. The reason for using iron: it is inexpensive and does the job well.

Super conductors with rotors running in vacuum with magnetic non-contact bearings might be the pinnacle of efficiency, but until the minor kinks are worked out we have iron, copper and ball bearings.

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