I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin wrote (in ) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
It sounds OK initially, but then what to make of these big corporations that pay minute amounts in tax? How do they fit in?
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Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Screw the exemptions for "basics" (that's the politically easier route, however). Give people money if they need it. The exemptions cause a LOT of complexity with a reasonable VAT/GST type system because of the way input tax credits have to be handled. AFAIK no country has been able to do that (politically) at a useful tax rate.
*Replacing* IT with a GST/VAT at a reasonable rate would be nothing short of revolutionary. Estate taxes should probably be jacked up (make it easier to make money in this generation rather than accumulate it over many), but that's another story.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
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"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Like the farm that pays some tax, but receives massive subsidies on its products.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Here in California we have exemptions from sales tax for lots of items; they just hit a key on the cash register, or program the barcode scanner to handle it. But sure, you could combine universal sales tax with a negative income tax; that's even simpler, if less politically palatable.
And I didn't mean a VAT: I meant a single visible point-of-sale sales tax; a tax entirely on end-user consumption. Businesses would pay the tax on things they consumed, but not on things for resale. California does that now, too.
That's the kind of logic that has governments subsidizing "dead man walking" corporations just to keep the employment going. Even if they just break even or perhaps lose a bit (there are other businesses in the area affected etc. etc. ad nauseam. Bad economics.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
A VAT/GST is much better. Otherwise there is tax embedded in exported goods, which is unfair to domestic companies. And there is double taxation because businesses don't really "consume" things. It's really simpler too.
As a consumer: You pay tax on everything. End of story (unless there are exemptions) No records to keep, nothing.
As a company (again assuming your business isn't involved with exempt goods): You pay tax on everything at X%. You collect tax at X% on everything sold domestically. You collect nothing (0%) on exported goods. You remit (or claim a refund) of tax collected minus tax paid with your sales tax return.
The records are essentially the same ones you'd need for corporate income tax, and there is no double taxation.
In fact, it works so well without damaging the economy the trick is to keep go vernments from cranking the spigot too far open. The Europeans are experts in extracting taxation- that's why they use it.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
I read in sci.electronics.design that Charles Edmondson wrote (in ) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
You could be right. If the corp pays little tax but high dividends, then indeed there is a compensation effect. It's up to the government then to set the corporation and personal tax rates to achieve a suitable balance. There could even be an argument for abolishing corporation tax and make it all personal. But then there are arguments against any income tax at all ......
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Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
I read in sci.electronics.design that Spehro Pefhany wrote (in ) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
Yes. In UK, we regard that as associated with 'Old Labour' - keeping lame ducks going to appease the trade-union bank-rollers.
Recently, there seems to have been a 'sub rosa' intervention policy, to lean on large but ailing companies with a view to avoiding ultimate collapse by pre-crisis intervention. Naturally, no-one will admit it: it wouldn't be 'cricket' for a civil servant to mention to a prominent board member that the CEO was regarded in the corridors of power as a wally.
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Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Nope. It's actually quite easy. Here in AZ there is no sales tax on FOOD. Automatically done in the stores computerized registers.
Damn! Spehro, you're responding like a socialist ;-)
Estate taxes? Come on, Spehro, here in the colonies we're gradually phasing out estate taxes.
...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin wrote (in ) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
There are all sort of things that could and should be done if engineers were in charge rather than economists. For example, a power law for personal tax rather than stepped rates, and extending to negative rates.
We'd like that in Europe, too, but the authorities have found VAT to be a good way of collecting data on business activities that are not exactly legal, or are legal but annoy the government.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
No, the problem isn't exempting tax on classes of items at the registers, everybody does that- it's that the companies that produce food now have embedded tax in their products, or there is a complex system to determine what everything is *used* for- exempt goods or non-exempt goods, and their supplies must be exempt or non-exempt. It's how the GST is done in Canada, so it's not totally unworkable, but with a strong leadership (?) it might be possible to just have one tax and no exemptions, which is much simpler. And the tax rate can be quite a bit lower if you don't exempt so-called basics (food is a typical "basic", but when you buy a prepared meal for $10 is it really a "basic" or is it $1.50 of basic and 8.50 of preparation?). And what is food? Chips? All that varies from state-to-state and province-to-province right now. Bottom line, is that a lower rate is better, and that means a minimum of exemptions (preferably none).
Oh, not really, just going to the next step. Remember we've had revolutionary sales tax reform in recent memory, so the issues are relatively fresh to me. The argument will be that very poor people are already spending 100% of their income and paying no IT so they can't afford a sales tax. It's silly to make a decision that affects the whole country's tax system on that group. Maybe they could have a subsidy card that gives them a discount equivalent to the tax at everyone else's expense. Or something else.
The nice thing would be if most people didn't have to keep track of their income and expenses. I would like the privacy, for one thing.
Yes, it's a different group of people that would support a sales tax and an estate tax (or equivalently to the latter, capital gains tax), but just my view of "fairness" and efficiency. Of course the rate must be further lowered by such a move, it's not "extra" money for the government to waste. There's no estate tax at all here, BTW, but the capital gains tax tends to have a similar effect. Politically, probably difficult.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
They don't pay taxes. Only end consumers pay sales tax. So you only get taxed if you spend any of your income, earned or unearned (as they call dividends, etc.).
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Getting rid of personal income tax (and disbanding the IRS) would be the equivalent of winning WWII in terms of improving the quality of lives. Maybe better.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Completely ridiculous. The New Deal is the Raw Deal.
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Of course, Hoover gave FDR a nice running start with all his idiotic actions.
I don't know why the left hates Bush. Like FDR, he gave them war and more socialist programs like the prescription drug benefit. He drove up the deficit, just like FDR.
If Bush would just raise taxes and drive up unemployment we'd have another FDR hero on our hands. I almost forgot that FDR cozied up to Stalin, but Bush knocked down a dictator instead. So much justified hate for Bush. Given the left's hero FDR, I can't understand the measure of hate for Bush when the two are compared. LOL (Hey dumbasses: I didn't vote for Bush.)
Works for me! But who would contribute to election campaigns if there were no money to fight over?
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
How so? If there's no corporate tax and no tax on materials, there's zero tax embedded in exports.
How double? Just apply the sales tax to consumed stuff (office supplies, furniture, whatever) and not to stuff purchased to go into resellable products. That way, the taxes are the same whether an exec buys a car himself or whether he drives a company car. That eliminates a lot of boondoggles.
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