Xilinx dev board with high quality video?

I'm doing a proof of concept that requires high quality video out. Either RGB or composite is fine (both would be great).

Spartan III or V4 preferred, with add-on modules OK.

The ML401 is a great board, and great value, but the rgb output just sucks.

Anyone got any recommendations?

Thanks

Reply to
Pete Fraser
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"Pete Fraser" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news: snipped-for-privacy@news.supernews.com...

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its not on the website yet, but there is base board for it that can be used standalone with following specs

Chrontel CH7301 for DVI or RGB out V4 (SF363) can be fitted with LX15, LX25 or FX12

2 DDR2 memories header for micron camera header for char LCD rs232 uart

there is no composite out though, if you need that then xilinx multimedia board has it, also several other boards are available

Antti

Reply to
Antti Lukats

Thanks Antti, and welcome back. Do you know the quality of the video on any of these boards first hand? The ADI DAC that is used on the ML401 is a fine part (I've used it in many of my own designs). I just think the layout is not optimal for the RGB output.

Reply to
Pete Fraser

Do you know when it will be available, and how much it will cost?

Reply to
Pete Fraser

I am interested in this problem. What do you mean the RGB sucks? There is a real RGB chip on the board right? Is there something wrong with that chip?

I read on the Xilinx web site that some of the analog gnds are mixed up with the digital gnds. Is it possible to lift these pins and ground them to the right places and improve the RGB output?

Brad Smallridge aivision.com

Reply to
Brad Smallridge

The video out has asynchronous resonant spikes running through it. The spikes are about 100 mV p-p, and have a resonant frequency of about 250 MHz, with about 6 half-cycles present.

There is also about 15 mV p-p of pixel clock and harmonics.

I don't think so. It's a fine chip that I've used in many designs.

I have not tried that. It's often tricky to get a decent, low-impedance alternative ground.

Pete

Reply to
Pete Fraser

Hard to believe when Xilinx tells us that they are signal integrity leader...

(Sorry, just could not resist ;-)

Thomas

Reply to
Thomas Entner

who the F*** designed your web site.... I know putting frames around product briefs lets you keep your logo.. but that's almost 2/3's of the screen gone...

Simon

translated: fire your web designer :-)

used

Reply to
Simon Peacock

"Simon Peacock" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:433f22f3$ snipped-for-privacy@news2.actrix.gen.nz...

product

Thanks Simon!

no translation required, I agree with you 2000 %, but I have no influence to solve the issue. :(

Antti PS its not my website. Its from the company I work for at the moment. (my contract ends 31.12.2005)

Reply to
Antti Lukats

I always think some positive feedback is important :-)

Simon

Reply to
Simon Peacock

In case anyone is wondering, the comments being made about the VGA quality on the ML401, ML402, and ML403 (they share the same PCB) are correct. All of the initial tests that we did with the VGA output didn't show any screen effects with the monitors that we were using. After we released the boards, we received customer feedback on the VGA quality and after looking over the issue discovered that the analog portions of the PCB were not optimal.

We have improved the VGA quality on the upcoming ML405 and ML410 boards that will be released early next year.

Ed

Reply to
Ed McGettigan

I have done the "tie all grounds together" mistake myself, so I know how you feel.

But I am wondering why the ML401 uses a 50MHz DAC instead of a 140MHz one like the other two boards. I can't imagine the difference in cost is significant in a $500 product and being limited to 800x600 isn't much fun. I am looking into adding a second video output using the expansion connectors to get around this but the result will be a bit awkward.

-- Jecel

Reply to
Jecel

[]

Hi Ed,

your comment about 405 "to be released early next year" (2006) sounds like firm indication that Xilinx has serious problems with 4FX? The ML405 was announced no later than jan 2005 (maybe earlier), now you are saying that it is coming sometime in 2006 ? Why announce products that are 'maybe' coming more than a year later? I would have expect ML405 to be available by now. Well if there is really an issue with 4FX that would explain why no FX boards are available from Xilinx online shop. Just wondering.

Antti

Reply to
Antti Lukats

"Pete Fraser" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news: snipped-for-privacy@news.supernews.com...

The board is 'functional test' phase, eg I still need to verify the DDR2 memories to be operational. As of manufacturing the boards we have everything ready, but there will be no general shipping until the board testing is completed. And sorry i have no pricing info.

Antti

Reply to
Antti Lukats

With every board that is designed you have to make some trade offs between peripherals, performance, power and cost. The ML401/2/3 boards are loaded with features at a very reasonable price point and in order to do that we had to make some compromises in certain areas.

When we designed the VGA output on these boards the thought was that it would make it easier for our FAEs to demo the Virtex-4 technology by being able to plug it into a projector for a whole room instead of having everyone crowd around a tiny LCD display. With this in mind we opted for a lower performance solution as it would keep the cost down and not add yet another clock source to the board. This was also carried through to the ML403 (FX12) version that has a lower total IO count (320 vs 448) and the bottom 3 bits of the RGB values are tied to GND providing only 15-bit color instead of 24-bit color on the ML401/2.

As it turns out we have had more customer interest interest than we expected in this feature and we have improved the VGA quality on upcoming boards. In order to verify and optimize the new VGA layout we built a protoboard for the XGI headers, so it is possible to do this cleanly. We are not intending on releasing this board for sale, but if there was interest in it we might (if you want to see this send me an email).

Ed

Reply to
Ed McGettigan

Right now almost all of the FX20 silicon is being shipped to customers on a priority basis. We do have fully functional ML405 and ML410 boards in house that we are now making available to our processor specialist FAEs and available on a limited loaner basis to customers and this will increase over coming months.

It takes 3-4 months from this point before we can complete all of the rest of the material in order to turn it from early access board that requires a knowledgeable and trained person to use it into a general availability product with full manufacturing tests, documentation, reference designs and packaging. Also, our internal processes has certain requirements that must be met before we place boards in the Xilinx Online Store, this should happen 1-2 months after the boards are available from our distributors.

We haven't formally announced the ML405 and ML410, but we have shown them at trade shows and forums such as this as an upcoming development vehicle for Virtex-4. We do this so that our customers and partners can understand what our plans our for support collateral so that they can develop their own product development and test roadmaps.

Ed

Reply to
Ed McGettigan

like

that it

coming

now.

Ok that explains it a bit. I expected that Xilinx internally should have ml405 boards. So the deal is that the boards are there, but are just not going to be made available until someday in 2006.

I still dont see a point to have the ml405 being mentioned in Xilinx publications in JAN 2005, and then ship sometime in 2006

Antti

Reply to
Antti Lukats

Jecel, could you give me some advice on this ? Same application; maybe using TI THS8133.

I feel I'm going to do the same mistake again :-)

Splitting grounds didn't always give me the best results. But I'm not so expert in high speed layout.

Reply to
Antonio Pasini

Indeed these boards are a great value and far cheaper than what it would cost me to build something similar, which is not common for development kits. Thank you for your explanation. I hadn't notice the

15 bit per pixel llimitation of the ML403.

I am still deciding if it is worth doing the extra VGA board - an alternative is to reduce the vertical refresh to 56 Hz or something like that.

-- Jecel

Reply to
Jecel

This was a long time ago using the original ARM chipset. The video was only 24MHz, so it was hardly high speed by today's standards. Though I knew that the analog part should have separate power and ground I was busy with other things and didn't correct the layout guy when he failed to do this. The running programs generate a very visible pattern on the display and even in the speaker. At least this made debugging a little easier ;-)

If you use all 10 bits available in the THS8133 instead of just 8 (24bpp) then I imagine it is even more important to get rid of the noise or else you might as well use the cheaper THS8134B instead.

-- Jecel

Reply to
Jecel

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