Which is your favorite FPGA language?

Lame. It'll always amount to a religious war. Besides, my personal choice (Hard-C) isn't present, so I can't vote.

Tommy

No EDIF option either.

Cheers, Jon

EDIF and Hard-C should reside under "Others", since they're not really mainstream language used.

Makes for a strange poll - just make it clear when you write this up, that you chose to severly restrict the candidate languages in the questions.

-jg

So you know the outcome of the poll before you started?

Cheers, Jon

Ok guys, I have added EDIF which I may have overlooked. But I'm sorry, what is Hard-C? If you mean C programming language, then it's under C/C

++ ...

I think that EDIF suppose to be a joke, I don't believe engineers are actually writing EDIF themselves unless they like pain :-)

I had to look it up as well, I found this info:

A C-like language for synchronous parallel programs, mostly inspired by Timogriffer C, with a nod to Handel-C. The compiler generates Verilog and some designs have been tested on Xilinx Spartan FPGA, using Xess' XSA-100 development board and the Xilix ISE WebPack. The linked file is an old snapshot of the development with many features missing.

Hans

On 12 Feb 2007 09:26:09 -0800, Joe posted in news: snipped-for-privacy@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com :"I'm currently running a series of polls on Verilog, SystemVerilog, VHDL, and SystemC. I'd like to get you guys to vote for your favorite FPGA language [..]

So, here's the link to the poll:

[..]"

A few minutes ago the webpage's radio buttons could be found amongst: "[..]

Which is your favorite FPGA language? Verilog 100% [ 2 ] VHDL 0% [ 0 ] C/C++ 0% [ 0 ] Other 0% [ 0 ] [..]"

Joe, as with many people including people who devised the standard's title, seems to have confused the SystemC(R) library specification with a language. As with multitudes more, Joe uses the term "C/C++" unhelpfully. From FTP://FTP.NetLab.CS.RPI.edu/pub/comp.lang.c++.moderated/acllcfaq.txt :"[..]

2: What is C/C++?

First of all, C and C++ are different languages. [..] C++ can be considered to be a superset of C, but there are real differences between them.

3: So, are C and C++ not so similar after all? [..] The differences between the two languages are significant enough to ensure that one has to be clear about the language being used. [..] [..]"

In news: snipped-for-privacy@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com , Joe posted a few minutes ago on 13 Feb 2007 04:20:59 -0800: "Ok guys, I have added EDIF which I may have overlooked."

Unfortunately Joe did so by removing the option "Other" altogether... so now the webpage's contents have changed to contain: "[..] Which is your favorite FPGA language? Verilog 100% [ 2 ] VHDL 0% [ 0 ] C/C++ 0% [ 0 ] EDIF 0% [ 0 ] [..]"

Tommy Thorn posted in news: snipped-for-privacy@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com : "[..] Besides, my personal choice (Hard-C) isn't present, so I can't vote."

In news: snipped-for-privacy@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com , Joe responded:

" But I'm sorry, what is Hard-C? If you mean C programming language, then it's under C/C

++ ..."

I do not know what Hard-C is. Perhaps it is something to do with C and hardware. The incompatibilities between different Verilog (or VHDL) pseudo-implementations are insignificant in relation to the incompatibilities between any two of CDL (C-Development Language and later Chip Design Language and CDL TradeMark) (not to be confused with CDL (Computer Design Language)); Cx; HardwareC; Handel-C; Spec C+; Esterel C; SystemC++ (not to be confused with the SystemC(R) library); SpecC; CynApps and CLevelDesign. As Verilog has syntax derived from C, why is it not lumped in with these at the C/C++ radio button?

Joe, I applaud your willingness to try to improve the poll as a result of feedback in this newsgroup. Perhaps instead of having simply "Others", it could allow someone to write something: e.g. "Others (please elaborate): I use ABEL and Java". However, perhaps someone who wanted to give such details could simply reply on your forum. A number of other points: many people will not bother to create an account just to vote on a forum which they can simply use Usenet for. You seem to appreciate some significance corresponds to Usenet: you tried to promote an alternative to Usenet via Usenet.

Another thing: one may prefer to not have a single language or to always use the same one.

Regards, Colin Paul Gloster

innews: snipped-for-privacy@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com

And where's the button to vote for "whatever language my employer forces down my throat"?

something: e.g. "Others (please elaborate): I use ABEL and Java".

Ohh, yes I forgot about ABEL, but it isn't supported in major FPGA software Quartus and ISE, so what's the point? I try to include languages supported by vendor software only. But Java??? Isn't this a computer language. I try not to include too many computer languages, as in theory if I do then most computer languages can be used for FPGA, ues even PERL.

Yes, C and C++ not the same, but group them for brevity sake, since the later is superset.

on your forum.

There's a difference. Usenet postings will be archived after a few months, but my forum poll is mean to run FOREVER. So, people can keep growing the poll results in time.

just to vote on a forum ...

Registration is simple, there's no email activation required. Please help grow the poll vote count if you care, it takes less than i minute to insert your "nickname" and "password" :)

the same one.

Yes, this is true. But there must be one that you like (favorite)

use the same one.

ahem...

- the one I'm not using this week

- the (possibly nonexistent) language that supports the feature I desperately need to solve today's problem

- the language my customer pays me to use

- the language I can use with most confidence

- the language for which my tools have fewest bugs

- the language for which I can get free or cheap tools ...

seriously - the best reason no-one wants to answer you is that we all know that the question is meaningless. If I answer the question "what is my preferred language" I know that I'm using my own criteria for preference, and everyone else's criteria may be different; so, if I post my preference on your forum, I can be sure that it is open to misinterpretation because you have not given me the tools to express my criteria.

Take a look at the archives of John Cooley's DeepChip website; he asks specific questions of a very wide audience. Even that is open to accusations of ambiguity and bias. What you're asking is so vague as to be unanswerable by anyone who cares about honesty and clarity.

Stop demanding answers to meaningless questions. If you want to find out what people really think about design languages, do a proper job and trawl through the archives of the relevant newsgroups, and the proceedings of relevant conferences like FDL and DVCon and DAC.

--
Jonathan Bromley, Consultant

DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how
VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services

Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK
jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com
http://www.MYCOMPANY.com

The contents of this message may contain personal views which 
are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.

something: e.g. "Others

The point is you really need to do more homework. ABEL is supported in Xilinx and Lattice flows, and those that have it, can still do Atmel flows in ABEL.

A better question is "What HDL language(s) do you use", as many designers use more than one.

I have most lines of code in CUPL, but also ABEL, Verilog, VHDL, and I like the look of MyHDL, which is a python derivative.

Not the way it is set up, they can't. Let user add languages, and tick more than one language, and it becomes half-usefull.

-jg

Joe posted in response to a post from C.P.G.:

">>> Perhaps instead of having simply "Others", it could allow someone to write something: e.g. "Others (please elaborate): I use ABEL and Java".

[..] it isn't supported in major FPGA software Quartus and ISE, so what's the point?"

What has that got to do with anything? You could ask what is one's preferred way to write comments, and if a VHDL fan answers that his preferred way is by bracketing with /* and */ the lack of support for this in all VHDL standards except the most recent (Accellera) VHDL standard does not affect the preference of how to comment -- which is a very different concept of how one actually is allowed to comment. I would like to not have to use the end of a line as a bracket for a comment in VHDL, but I am disgusted that the /**/ comments in VHDL will not be nestable (thereby copying C by too far), so I may stick to the traditional commenting form as it is much easier for temporarily commenting out code which itself has comments.

" I try to include languages supported by vendor software only."

A number of languages used for hardware description are not available from vendors.

" But Java??? Isn't this a computer language. I try not to include too many computer languages, as in theory if I do then most computer languages can be used for FPGA, ues even PERL.

[..]"

Java is a computer language. If you read the literature, you would read that many computer languages or languages whose creators were inspired by computer languages have been used for describing logic, though such claims might not always be made honestly. Some examples: R. Helaihel, K. Olukotun, "Java as a Specification Language for Hardware-Software Systems", IEEE/ACM ICCAD, 1997; APL; Scheme (I am referring to Verischemelog, not SKILL nor SKILL++); Python (MyHDL) (Python is a major rival to Perl); Haskell (Hawk; and Lava); ML (HDCaml); Ada (even if VHDL is not counted as Ada); and others which I have forgotten having heard about.

N.B. I did not say that any "There's a difference. Usenet postings will be archived after a few months, but my forum poll is mean to run FOREVER. So, people can keep growing the poll results in time."

Many websites were meant to last forever but after many years they ceased to be and their contents not preserved for interested parties in the future. This may even apply to some archives of newsgroups such as can be found from

and (and maybe but it is going up to only 2007 February 9th today) but in some form or another, they may be accessible for considerably larger, well maybe until Google might sometime charge for accessing its archive.

">>>A number of other points: many people will not bother to create an account just to vote on a forum ...

Registration is simple, there's no email activation required."

I concede that is less inconvenient than other websites.

" Please help grow the poll vote count if you care, it takes less than i minute to insert your "nickname" and "password" :)"

Ah, but the inconvenience of such websites: yet another account to create, and yet another password to somehow remember. Ick.

">>> Another thing: one may prefer to not have a single language or to always use the same one.

Yes, this is true. But there must be one that you like (favorite)"

My favorite is Ada. If VHDL is not to be considered as being Ada, then my favorite is still Ada, but VHDL is not far behind in my preferences though I do think that some parts of it are atrocious, e.g.

some_signal