airbags

Think Flagstaff, Winslow...

--
  Keith

Re: going straight. My wife asked me when she got her first ABS equipped car if that meant she wouldn't slide anymore. "Sure", says I, "You'll go *straight* into the tree." ...and as it turns out, that's about the only time that POS would go straight.

--
  Keith

Howdy!

One guy in another newsgroup that drives a Land Rover with ABS was bitching about it also. Couldn't get his studded tires to bite into the ice, since the ABS kept the tires from locking long enough to BITE ...

Which, when you consider it - a Land Rover with ABS sounds like ... someone, someWHERE, has gone totally crazy!

RwP

Yeah, I used to work in Crestline, and live down below in SanBerdoo. One night, got a little way down the mountain, and needed to chain up. Unfortunately, I was on a small slope coated with glare ice. If I held the brake on, all four wheels would keep me from rolling. If I put the emergency brake on, just the rear wheels stopped would have me sliding down hill! Had to step out quick, and put some junk from my back seat in front of my back tires so I could get out of the car long enough to put the chains on!

Charlie Edmondson Engineering Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems

...reminds me of when I lived in the hell-hole NY. We didn't get snow down there, rather it slushed. I had studded tires and the back end constantly wanted to come around to the front. The front brakes held, the rears didn't. To this day I'll never buy studded tires. What a PITA!

OTOH, here in Vermont they know how to take care of snow. We had over 5' of snow in a week (three major snowfalls) and perhaps I lost an hour's work (took the wife to work one morning).

--
  Keith

I've had pretty good luck with studded tires, your problem sounds more like an issue with the car, probably had poor weight ballance with a lot of weight up in the front, the front tires got good traction so the back had a tendency to come around. Several sandbags in the trunk work well, if your trunk is clean like mine put the bags in a large rubbermaide bin, then if you get stuck you have sand to dump on the ice patch too.

I have always had two wheel drive pickups here in New York State. In the fall, on go the studded snows and 6 bags of water softener salt in the bed. Works for me !

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like

a

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Airbags don't just deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents. I'd say the chances of this actually happening are roughly the same as having your computer monitor screen explode in your face when you push the power button on. Maybe less of a chance than that.

They do from time to time. I believe Volvo had a problem a few years back where the static charge created by rubbing the dashboard (while cleaning it) set a few off.

Airbags are equipped with shorting plugs so that when unplugged (for maintenance), the squib inputs are shorted, preventing detonations due to static.

There are problems with fire or rescue personnel having them go off while they are leaning into wrecked cars, or side airbags being set off when they cut the roof off a car to extract injured occupants.

--
Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers:  a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
start with a small country.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos wrote (in ) about 'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:

I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the instruction book of my Volvo.

"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats. The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

I wonder who though up THAT design?? Single sensor deployment??? Am I reading that right??? And a sensor vulnerable to environmental contamination / false trigger. Fabulous. I'm again reminded why I don't like Volvos.

Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy for no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag. Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.

Flotation device?

I always called my buddy's Volvo a Fluffo ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos wrote (in ) about 'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:

Indeed, I haven't submerged the Volvo, yet. But I did flood a company Cortina by driving through flood water to my boss's house. The water was just an inch or two too deep, but I kept the engine running OK.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. 
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Several other manufacturer reported unintended deployment of the airbag. When it happens on the freeway at 120km/h with

10m distance to the next you're getting a problem. We're having reports over here on how to behave in the car. Eg for the co-driver, putting the feet up to the dashboard is a habit to better forget. Having a baby in the arms is considered irresponsible.

Airbags do deploy by themselves. There might be a bug in the controlling electronics too.

A colleague of mine had an upperclass car with distance warner. Intended to act on the break while parking in when the distance to the other car in front got sufficiently small. This electonics happend to act on the freeway at 120km/h. More than once.

Rene

--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

few

up

an

know

deploy

processor

Hardly, I've spoken with two people who have had this happen, of course both were 10+ year old cars (IE the ones I'm interested in owning) that had the airbag control box located under the driver's seat. Sensor in that case is a simple accellerometer.

Yes, this is what I was referring to, and Volvo is certainly not the only car manufacture to use that setup, it's actually quite common.

Thankfully though, the reinforced passenger cage, large crumple zone, collapsible steering column and driveshaft, breakaway engine mounts, spacious interior and good seatbelts make them damn safe even before the airbags came into play, the 240 still holds as one of the safer cars on the road, despite being designed nearly 3 decades ago and despite only the last couple years offering airbags. Ask any fireman, EMT, or insurance broker, most any of them will confirm this. If you design a car to absorb the force of the impact while not deforming the passenger compartment, and *if* the occupant(s) are properly belted into place, then the airbag will do no good. Of course I'm somewhat biased, I know a great many cars out there are built like tin cans, and in their case an airbag could concievably protect an occupant. I personally choose not to drive a flimsy car though.

Try that for fun next time you have the chance.

Find a SAFE place with an ice lane and a clean lane (some empty parking lots are a good place for that). Try with both ABS an not ABS brake. Drive with one side of your car on the ice lane and try an emergency stop.

:o)

PS. some cheap ABS should not even exit (like one in 1990 Cavalier (low entry)), they were a pain ...

PS.. Summer ABS no really needed !

David DiGiacomo wrote:

It IS? Name another model that uses a single sensor deployment. I don't believe that.

the

last

force

good.

built

I agree. Drive a soup can and you'll die in it.

However - if the market demands horsepower, handling, and affordability, the manufacturers will deliver. Perhaps at the expense of structural rigidity and crash worthiness. You get what you pay for.

wheel,

It's similar to adding a little chlorine to the gene pool. Natural selection at its best....