Re: what java enabled devices are there other than cell phones

Some smart cards use a script language java derivative, and the thinking here is to decouple the deep core, for security perception reasons.

Only if the underlying HW is close enough, and this is true of any language.

This misses the point - adding any script language will DELAY product release, not hasten it ( tho SUN will try and spin otherwise )

The REAL reason things like phones have Java has much more to do with after market sales, and revenue streams, than any embedded design decision.

Look at the revenue stream of ring tones, for example : 'If we make this feature programmable, we can get more $$$ from the customer.'

Java came and went, from the truly embedded scene, a couple of years ago. Just a single DAC had an embedded Java spin.

There are not many embedded products that benefit from a script language, and Java is quite a costly script language (resource wise).

I don't quite understand you here. Are you saying Java is a 'script' language? And if you are, what the heck is a 'script' language compared to any other programming language? And why would a 'script' language delay product development?

I'm not trying to be stupid, I just usually use 'script' to refer to things like bash, awk, and perl. (Yes, I know perl is compiled at runtime.) I don't generally lump Java into that camp because there are readily available CPUs that speak Java natively, and native code Java compilers are common for other architectures.

I believe that over time, more Java will see its way into embedded apps. But it's got an uphill battle, IMHO. Java seems to have carved out a niche for itself in the data centers, where Unix lived for decades before making some moves into embedded devices.

I agree that Java takes more hardware resources on most architectures than alternatives like C and assembly. That's why I said that Java only makes sense if the development resources dominate per-unit hardware costs, and if the programmers really can develop faster with Java than an alternative. Two big "ifs", and it's conceivable there are places where they'd come true.

Kelly

Yes, that's a problem. The cell phone market gets all the attention from Sun. They write all the J2ME specs for this market and forget the rest of the embedded world. I would like to see a common specification of a subset for Java to build a base for embedded devices (without all this Swing stuff, just a reduced library).

I'm interested in this because I'm working on a Java processor (not a product):

Perhaps it can be used to build Java enabled embedded systems :) Martin

"Dan" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Xns93C9D568B8C48RhubarbIsRed@206.127.4.25...

That JOP is some very impressive work.

Dan

"Martin Schoeberl" wrote in news:GToXa.93026$ snipped-for-privacy@news.chello.at:

The DVB-T MHP set top boxes contain a Java interpreter so that various hardware independent applications can be downloaded into the STB from the DVB (MPEG2) transport stream over the air.

Java and other interpreted languages make sense in situations in which the code must be execution platform independent and heavily restricted to avoid data security problems such as in cellular phones and set top boxes. In industrial controllers the IEC (6)1131 language family is widely used with data types suitable for the industrial controller environment. I don't see much benefit for using Java in such devices anyway.

Paul

Hi Dan,

want to try it :)

be warned: not easy to get started, but that's the fun of embedded systems.

Martin