How workable is Vista?

Dell will provide a down converter process so that you can get back to XP, but you would have to do this process yourself. And yes, Microsoft is driving this termination of XP.

I've been using Vista Business for 3 months on a Lenovo T61 laptop. Lenovo also provided the XP rollback process, which I haven't attempted.

Under Vista, a number of my old program would not install without complaining that they are not supported and would be at risk, so I had to update. For example, Visual Studio 6, Visual Studio .Net 2003, Quickbooks. Even TortoiseCVS has a know issue under Vista, but I've been using it without problem. I've had no problems with Open Office, but there was an installation issue with Matlab that I had to call tech support about. I still have a number of other applications that I haven't gotten around to installing.

There are a number of things about Vista that I don't like, mainly because they are changes from Win2K/XP without improvement. For example, searching for a file or text within a file from Explorer is now a convoluted process that you need to get retrained to do. And the number of services running under Vista is easily doubled compared to XP, which is why I got 3Gigs of Ram.

Also unless you are logged in a SysAdm, Vista locks you our of certain folders. For example, as a non-SysAdm, you can't use the default "work" folder under c:\Program Files\Matlab.

So yes, it has been a PITA, but it has to be done eventually if you plan to use Windows for whatever reason (mainly client compatibility issues).

Note: I am running Ubuntu Linux as a guest OS under Vista using VirtualBox so that I can work with Open Embedded for a Gumstix target. So if you are buying a new PC, get a lot of RAM and hard disk space if you want to run dual operating systems. This lets you do your Windows to Linux switch gradually or use the best from both worlds without having to reboot. And the tools (VirtualPC, VirtualBox, VmWare), are free or inexpensive.

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almost the moment it boots up; I don't have to wait for all the startup appl= ications to finish before I can get responses to anything I do. =A0XP was no= torious for sitting around 2 or 3 minutes with little things still starting = up, not letting you do anything. =A0With Vista, the startup apps may take th= e same 2 or 3 minutes but you can go ahead and get started doing your work. END QUOTE

I pay regular visits to msconfig to keep my machine fresh. I've an Intel Core Duo 1.83 GHz. My desktop appears quickly and I can start clicking straight away. If your XP is polluted then Yes it can take a couple of minutes. But if it's lean and clean, it's quick as lightening.

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inistrator, you have to give explicit permission to change the system config= uration. =A0This is like "sudo" in UNIX. =A0It protects you from malware. = =A0Contrary to those Mac ads, it is NOT a pest. =A0If you see those prompts = every day, something is wrong. =A0I see them about once a month. END QUOTE

I hate that stuff. For example, under Linux, I'm always logged in as root. I have full control over what executables files I run, and I'm not thick, so I don't have a problem. And yes I do see those prompts every day, must just be the kind of user I am.

Using the closed source version of Virtual Box (it's closed source, but free for most practical uses), you can pass USB devices through to the guest system without the host having to have drivers. I've not tried Virtual Box on the Mac, but I had no problems using a windows-only USB dongle from a Virtual Box windows guest on a Linux host.

On Linux it is *so* easy to mix and match root and normal user work that it's just plain daft to login as "root" for normal usage. There is "su" (or "sudo su -") for command lines, kdesudo or gsudo for use on KDE or Gnome (most gui-controlled stuff that requires root runs these automatically), and setuid bits for scripts.

If you are using Linux as a server, and most of your work is administration that requires root privileges, then logging in as root makes some sense, but even then you are best logging in as a user and using su (or "sudo su -") on your shell.

If you are working with a desktop, then it's silly to login as root - it's like removing the door to your house to avoid the minor inconvenience of opening it.

It's a royal PITA, especially in the beginning, but workable for most software I use. You can turn stuff off and make it a lot more like XP than the default. It needs a bit more RAM than XP for the smme job, even if you turn off eye candy options, but RAM is dirt cheap these days.

I suspect, but don't know for sure, that 32-bit Vista is easier to live with than 64-bit XP for those of us who use a lot of different bits of software.

I still see random crashes perhaps once a week, that seem to be graphics related, something I never see with Win2K and XP Pro. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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Ammiravo la mia cresta allo specchio quando Tomás Ó hÉilidhe ha detto :

KUbuntu is an awful Linux distribution. I wouldn't be surprised of bugs and similar. Try something more serious like Debian or, better for a desktop PC, Archlinux....you'll never find a bug using the proper repositories.

Anyway, Windows XP sp2 and Windows 2000 sp4 are two great products, there is no real need for Vista and it should be enough for not use it.

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Rick I've run Vista for quite some time and although there are those wh absolutely despise it, if you approach it with an open mind its not nearl as bad as what you've heard. There are a bunch more "bells and whistles to turn off than XP had but Vista is capable of good performance. Somethings you will like better than XP somethings you will not. There ar some incompatibilities just as their was when XP was new but these ar becoming less and less common. There are few reasons to upgrade to Vist but also few reasons to go back to XP. It is the future and we'll all hav to get used to it eventually.

Yep, seems they want to milk you for more money.

May be ok as long as you don't have to do engineering work with it. I found that some of the software I need doesn't come in Linux versions.

It appears one can still buy XP though:

They also have the cheaper home edition. If this continues places like Dell might have actually shot themselves into the foot by letting MS force them to accept Vista. Because potential buyers might be better off with the local PC shop that can put XP on without a cost penalty. If MS then curbs the sale of licenses then a gray market will pop up if it hasn't already.

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d :

yes, with Vista ultima and Business you have always had the option to install XP instead, Dell just added the option that they can do it for you for a fee

and afair only ultima and Business can connect to a domain

-Lasse

I am not so sure considering their EOL declaration for new XP installs for end of this month. What I really don't understand is how big players like Dell could agree to that. It'll hurt them, big time. There may even be layoffs while the local PC wrench shops will jump for joy. Most of those won't have any problems "obtaining" XP for their customers while Dell and such will probably be contractually bound to push Vista.

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[...]

Which begs the question: What were they thinking up there in Redmond?

It's almost like offering a car and telling the cusotmers "Oh, and by the way, it won't be able to pass smog".

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The design philosophy behind Vista appears to be to put the wants and needs of the record producers and movie studios above those of the user. Do a web search on [ Vists DRM ] and you will see what I am talking about.

I recently bought a Vista-based laptop and a retail boxed copy of XP. Turns out that the laptop manufacturer deleted all of the XP drivers from their website. Doing a websearch for the drivers turned up page after page of sites that linked to the now-missing drivers on the manufacturer's website. I finally found the drivers on the manufacturer's European website.

Without the drivers, I had no Ethernet, wireless networking, sound or SD card reader, and the display had limited resolution. I figure that Microsoft pressured them into deleting the XP drivers to force users to use Vista, and that they won't write any XP drivers for the next generation of laptops.

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Guy Macon

Mother of Mercy.

Are you're telling me that normal Vista won't let you go into network neighbourhood and browse through file shares, printer shares, etc..

If so, that's thoroughly disgusting. If so, I'm now going to start a hate campaign against Vista.

A rather large value of 'bunch more'..

On a MUCH higher spec system, the only true comparison is same application loaded on identical machines and timed doing the same tasks. My experience of mine and a VERY small number of my customers, is it is more awkward to setup as you want. Don't get me started on DRM screw ups.

Windows Mail (Outlook Express on Vista) is partly improved in message storage where email folders are actual folders and emails are stored in seperate files. The importing is a pain from other systems/paackages.

Windows Calendar import from other systems especially using Outlook WITHOUT a server is a nightmare. Mind you import/export and inability to import AND export the same formats is a pain between even Micro$oft products.

It is yet another pain in the proverbial for things that have to have

10 years plus support, as in a lot of places this means rebuilding and VERIFYING the outputs match for all stages of projects. That is if you can still get the package and/or hardware for something bought 5+ years ago with company buyouts and EOL on product lines.

One of the things I recently worked on for a customer was part of their contract with their customer which lasts TWENTY years!

For real fun commentary, (you need the sound turned up)

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Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:

You cannot join a Windows Vista Home Basic or Windows Vista Home Premium computer to a domain. You cannot join *any* Windows Vista computer to a Windows NT 4.0 domain -- even if your NT server still works fine and your LAN has no connection to the Internet, you have to upgrade your server.

See [

] for a detailed comparison of the fifteen available versions of Windows Vista (not including server versions based on Vista):

Windows Vista Starter Edition Windows Vista Home Basic Windows Vista Home Basic x64 Windows Vista Home Basic N Windows Vista Home Basic N x64 Windows Vista Home Premium Windows Vista Home Premium x64 Windows Vista Business Windows Vista Business x64 Windows Vista Business N Windows Vista Business N x64 Windows Vista Enterprise Windows Vista Enterprise x64 Windows Vista Ultimate Windows Vista Ultimate x64

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Guy Macon

You don't need a domain for that sort of thing. A "domain" basically means you have a centralised server for authentication - if you are happy with creating user accounts and setting up passwords individually on machines as needed, then you don't need to use a domain.

This in a news feed:

Seems the situation is 'fluid' with Microsoft trying to bully everyone over to vista. (no surprise there). Of course, a large customer push-back, will have Microsoft's PR and Spin department into overdrive.

It also confirms that legally you can downgrade without having to pay extra.

News: [The latest news comes from Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, reacting to criticism at a recent news conference, who said "XP will hit an end-of-life. We have announced one. If customer feedback varies, we can always wake up smarter, but right now, we have a plan for end-of-life for new XP shipments."

As of now the June 30 deadline stands, but PC makers may be encouraging Microsoft to get "smarter" by taking the rare step of openly combating Microsoft's direction that vendors move from XP to Vista. HP, Dell, and Lenovo have all said they will downgrade operating systems on new machines from Vista to XP at customer request and will continue to do so until 2009 (specific ending dates vary).

Note that no one's breaking the law here. Legally, anyone with a volume license or an OEM license for Vista can downgrade to XP without having to pay extra for the OS. The only exception is for those who purchased "full packaged product (FPP)" editions, which do not include downgrade rights, though Windows Vista Professional and Ultimate editions do. Whether XP drivers are available is another issue.

If asked, many companies will include an XP disc with your order, but Dell is installing XP at the factory as well. Cnet also offers some additional helpful advice on obtaining XP if you're buying a Vista machine. ]

But from the statement on Dell's site it seems they only offer downgrade if you first "upgrade" to a more expensive version of Vista. Makes absolutely no sense to me and it could cost them revenue. One could almost bet it will cost them revenue.

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When I bought my new Dell Inspiron, Vista was on it (I had a little play first, didn't like it at all) but that didn't last as I wiped the disk and installed Mandriva Linux. I have enjoyed using the Open Office tools, The Gimp, Konqueror and Mozilla Firefox, VuTrax PCB design and layout software and Vfx Forth (for Linux) on this system. I use AVidemux for video editing and Audacity for editing sound.

I am sure I will find a decent mechanical 3D CAD system at some point. This and some PERT based project management software would complete the set nicely.

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