car battery and windshield wiper motor

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Warning -- as someone said earlier on s.e.d., there's a law that requires at least one boneheaded obvious math error in any post dependent on arithmetic to make a point. Caveat emptor.

Hi, Pat. By chance, a surplus wiper motor for 2000/2001 Saturns is being sold at All Electronics. It's a 2-speed job, and the blurb says it uses 4 amps for hi-speed at 106 RPM and less than 1 amp for low speed at 41 RPM.

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Not a bad deal for 16 bucks. Let's assume lo-speed. 41 RPM = about

1.5 seconds at 0.91 amps. Round it off to 1 amp * 1.5 seconds = 1.5 a-s (amp-seconds, a-s = amp * seconds).

Now, even a small car battery is good for 40 a-H (amp-hours), but even for marine and deep discharge batteries, you shouldn't take more than half of that. So lets assume 20 a-H capacity, which means 72,000 a-s capacity. This will give you 48000 shots, and at 6 per hour, you're talking about 333 days of use. Of course, as a practical matter, the battery will self-discharge and go flat well before that, and the above didn't take into account the work that will have to be done by the motor. Short story, though, is you'll probably be OK for a month, maybe two months with this motor, but not 333 days, or forever.

I would lean toward using a marine, R-V or wheelchair-type battery instead of a car battery. Although they're somewhat more expensive, they are made to handle deep discharges better. Also, if you ask around, you can find batteries with better room temperature a-H ratings (battery sellers and manufacturers have this data -- they just don't want to publicize it for some reason). Higher a-H rating is better.

No matter what, stay away from used car batteries, unless you know it's less than a couple of years old and hasn't been in a car with electrical problems. Old car batteries are almost always a disappointment, even for starving artists who have made disillusionment their very sustenance.

Remember -- your 10 minute timer drives a relay, transistor, or SSR to start the motor, and use a cam microswitch to stop it at exactly the same place every time. (These are also available at Allelectronics.com)

By the way, try to get a sealed lead-acid battery, and be sure to clamp or bolt down the battery well. Spilled acid can ruin someone's day (possibly a kid -- be careful). Also, make sure the terminals and any exposed wiring is insulated -- people use (and drop) the darnedest things when setting up and taking down displays. It might be better to get one of those batteries with the built-in carrying handle, and install the battery after the display has been moved.

Good luck Chris

Reply to
Chris
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For an art piece, I would like to be able to anticipate about how long a standard car battery would drive a car windshield wiper motor hooked directly to it, if the wiper motor is activated for one cycle every ten minutes. This is not in the manual. Thanks for any input.

pat

Reply to
Pat Kilgore

The answer specifically depends on the motor. The demand of the motor depends on the mechanical load. The mechanical load changes as the amount of water & dirt and the drag of the rubber change, then there is the motor speed to consider. Also, pausing for 10 minutes between strokes is plenty of time for the battery to recover....

I would say there are plenty of undefined variables so the only answer is, a while. Give it the acid test...hook it up and run it until the battery reaches

10.5 volts. This is considered a dead battery, it is not good to deep cycle a battery to this point regularly. Deep cycle batteries can handle this better but they cost more.
Reply to
Lord Garth

Around one week at least. 5s*20A = 100As each cycle. The battery has maybe

54Ah capacity of which you can use around 50% to not degrade it. 27*3600/100= 972 activations.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy
Reply to
Ban

As an addendum to what others have posted, I'd just like to note that windshield wiper motors can have an astonishing amount of starting torque. As a student engineer at Cadillac Motor Car in the late 1960s, I used a wiper motor to drive a test fixture (for something else I don't recall now). In order to test the rotation direction, I held the motor in my hand while connecting it to a big bench supply. Big mistake! Jerked right out of my grip and whacked me with the mounting ears of the motor housing. So, 1) be careful! and 2) the starting current may be a whole lot more than the run current, and in your case you have a high proportion of starting current.

Best regards,

Bob Masta dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom D A Q A R T A Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis

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Reply to
Bob Masta

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Hello again, Pat. SSAC makes very good products. I would guess you can save at least half of that $50 by doing a home brew, but given your level of electronics expertise, buying a packaged solution and avoiding the hassle might be worth the extra $30.

One question: You said you need one cycle every 10 minutes. What do you mean by that? I guess I assumed in your OP you meant you needed precisely 1.00 revolution of the motor. If not, the SSAC relay is a great idea. If you need the motor to stop at the same place every time, you're going to need a better solution, particularly a cam on the motor shaft and a microswitch to sense the cam bump to stop the motor. At least you don't have to worry about the power supply.

(By the way, I don't believe there's reverse-polarity protection on those Solid State interval timers. If it's possible to reverse-connect the battery terminals, you should think about using a protection diode to keep from smoking your SSR. It's shown as "D" below. Use a 1N4002 for D, and a 1N5402 for D2 if the motor uses less than 3 amps.)

` ` + Battery - ` o o ` | Microswitch | ` | (Use N.C. Contact) D2 | ` | .---|

Reply to
Chris

Thanks everybody for the replies. That's more than I knew about batteries put together already What we have used in the past to control timing and switching is time delay relays.

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is the one i would use here) With this one current is always on and the timer switches the relay on and off. Little pricey at fifty bucks but I didn't see a switch timer combo I could use hooked up to a 12 volt battery at allelectronics.com. I know squat about reading the specs on switches and cam microswitches, etc. You think I could do a lot better than $50?

Pat

Chris wrote:

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Reply to
Pat Kilgore

The only current that is on all the time is that which runs the timer. I'm sure this is very low. Given that you don't work with electronics, this $50 part is probably a good approach.

Reply to
Lord Garth

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