Why is an EV's backup power less than it's driving power?

Air resistance causes drag forces which robs power as the cube of velocity becomes distinctly non-negligible from 60mph upwards so you are being rather over optimistic there.

That's my point exactly. Anything over 50kW drive (motor) is just theoretical (marketing).

I wouldn't be so sure of that. My recollection is that domestic power in several European countries is very much lower than in the UK with a 20A main fuse being common in rural areas. Same when I lived in Japan too.

They rely on diversity of use. An assumption that is broken around evening meal times and especially at half time of major sporting events. UK National Grid is offering people with smart meters an incentive not to run heavy loads at peak times during this winter.

Unclear if it will work my electricity supplier isn't taking part :(

Fortunately peak load per household seldom exceeds 10A at the same time so the distribution network is never under threat.

He is describing the sort of mains power that is quite common in Spain, Italy and a few other southern European countries and Japan too. Belgium by comparison had about the same fusing as in the UK - in fact their phone connectors also looked like they were rated for about 10A!

Or you (Ricky) have some reading problems.

I said the typical home here has a 3.6 KW contract and limit.

I also said that mine is just 2.4 KW contract and limit, and is not a small house. It is significantly bigger than the average. You might ask (politely) why I have such a small pipe, or not. But do not assume things that you do not know.

Spain is peculiar in that we have to pay for the size of that fuse. Not an actual fuse, it is an electronic limiter inside the smart meter, and can be configured remotely. The minimum currently is 2.3KW, and the maximum is 15 KW, for a home. But you can contract thryphasic, and triple that power. Commercial users have different rules.

Thus, people reduce the power capacity in their contract and corresponding fuse, because it is not cheap.

You (Ricky) can not judge if what others do is intelligent or not. They have their reasons, different than yours.

I'm simply trying to point out that not every country is like yours, that there are many ways of doing things. You are probably living in a privileged country where energy and energy capacity are cheap.

Exactly.

What they are doing here is raise the price during peak hours.

Oh, I forgot: we now can contract different current limit during peak/valley hours. Say limit to 15A during peak hours, 25A during valley hours. The pricing is also different.

Exactly.

Wow :-)

Yes, Spain silently changed from 220 to 230. They said nothing, but it was in the fine print of the contract. I believe the EU standardized on 230.

I typically measure 122 at work or home.

Our house is 120-n-120 at 100 amps per phase. That's huge, since we use gas for heat and cooking and we don't have a/c.

Only the clothes dryer uses 240.

I live in an apartment, I don't know what the feed is but in my panel is 4*10A fuses

I believe it has been changed to a symmetric +/-10%

here (Denmark) everyone has three phase

The carmakers put lots of power in a car, so they can pass on hills and such. It has been more than once I've put my foot on the floor to pass a car.

He has said both that these low home power connections are typical, then said "It is not Spain, it is this house." Am I misunderstanding what he is saying?

I don't really care one way or the other. If a country wants to ration electrical power and play Green Acres with everyone's power connection, it has no impact on me and I have no impact on it.

That's everywhere. All electrical grids have peak power usage each day. What he is talking about is not being able to cook when you want because the hot water heater and the A/C are both running. His entire home is on a 10 amp circuit!!!

He said they don't use electricity for heating and the A/C is just 1 kW for one room. So he is living like a third world country. That's how many places are in Puerto Rico. The last place I stayed had a low water use flapper valve on the toilet. It was so bad, the damn thing would not flush properly. They had to call a plumber to clean it out. Penny wise, pound foolish.

He is not being consistent in what he says.

The rest is just noise.

Five hundred Dollars is rather optimistic - more like $2-5K for a 10kW inverter.

For example:

You have had several opportunities to explain the matter, yet you go back and forth. I don't know how to get a straight answer from you. It doesn't matter. I have no interest in living like I'm in a third world country. I see this sort of thing in Puerto Rico all the time. They get a mind set that electricity is expensive, so they freak out about leaving a light on, a light that has to be on for 400 hours to cost $1.00. People tend to not actually pay attention to the facts, they just shoot from the hip.

That's a problem of mindset. There is literally no reason for the power company to charge so much for even a tiny feed. You have acclimated and are happy living at Green Acres. Lisa also adapted, because she wanted to be with her husband. Great for you.

And you are not able to explain any of it.

Not sure what to make of that. The cost of building and operating power grids does not vary tremendously around the first world. The sort of miserly distribution of power you are talking about is not because of inherent costs. It is because of mindsets.

That's common everywhere. It's also nothing like limiting the size of your "pipe".

Except that you continue to change your story.

I assume you are not in the US? I've never heard of 10A circuits. Even a hair dryer would blow that breaker.

Clearly you have separate heat and A/C, also hot water and range/oven. I assume you have gas.

In the US grid voltage tolerance is ±5% or +6% and -13% for different rates of occurrence.

They bring three phase into the home? That's a big boost in power! Do they provide 230V off each leg of the three phase to neutral? Or is it 230V between each pair of three phase legs?

Denmark, 230V

no AC, no gas, heating and hot water is hydronic district heating

Same difference. The point is you have no high use electric loads, other than possibly an electric car which is only as high use as your driving.

sure, never said otherwise, and charging an electric car would be a bit inconvenient since I park on the street and live on the second (third) floor ;)

What exactly was the point of your post about your electrical connection? You kinda did the Larkin thing, posting data with no explanation. Just more data with no particular point?

Even so, if you multiply 4 * 10A, that's 10 kW. Nothing to sneeze at for lighting and outlets.

I don't know what people are going to do when they don't have a choice other than driving a BEV and they can't charge at home. Sitting at chargers just to charge sucks. That's why I use chargers by places where I can get food or do shopping. That's ok once in a while, but every week would get boring.

In most of the western world, there won't be a choice in buying ICE by 2030 or 2035. There will be so few ICE cars on the road at some point that it won't be profitable to sell gas, so the stations will close. Then it's BEV or Shank's ponies.

Well, actually 100-amp is very common, and 200-amp for larger homes. By split-phase, we do not mean polyphase of any kind. We mean that we take power from a single phase and pass it through a transformer with a center-tapped transformer secondary, with the center connection (power neutral, white wire in the US) being held very close to earth ground (green wire in the US). The two ends of the center-tapped winding may be both black, or sometimes red and black. In three-phase systems, the wires usually have different colors for each of the phases. There is a rule that I don't remember.

Yes, exactly. But do not call them phases - this is single-phase, so they are not phases.

About the same. But if I wanted to run a US tea water heater, I'd have to run a 220-volt line to the kitchen, but with maybe 10-amp fuses. Which I have seen. There is a US plug for that, which does not resemble UK plugs.

I don't offhand know our average. I'll hunt up a bill or two.

There is no transformer. The US definition of "220 Volt supply" is loose enough to allow 240 Vac. I'll have to measure what we are getting. I certainly can get the utility to change that, if it's out of spec. Which I very much doubt.

A similar story in the US.

Same kind of story in the US. Might be the same exact limits.

Ahh. What you call "balanced" sounds like the US split phase.

Joe Gwinn

yes just another datapoint , what is you point in complaining about more data? ;)

yes it is plenty, I think I would have to max out my cooktop, oven, and kettle to even get close to that

I'd charge at work

Everything I've seen says 200 amps is the norm for new home installations. 100 amps is outdated and will limit the ability to expand electrical use without having to redo the installation. Heck, one neighbor says that the guy on the other side of him had to expand his feed to install a pair of Tesla chargers. I kinda don't believe that. These houses were built in the late 80s, early 90s and I am confident that house had 200 amp service from day one. However, Tesla chargers can be as high as 90 amps each, so yeah, if he went that insane, then he might have needed to upgrade a 200 amp service.

You always use white for the common/neutral and black for hot. Red is either switched hot, or the other leg of 240V. If you don't have the correct color wire in the cable, you can wrap the last few inches of insulation with the right color tape, to mark it.

The voltages in the US are 120 or 240, or in commercial settings, they use a Y transformer for three phase that is 120 to neutral and 208 between phases. There's a delta three phase, 240V between phases, but one leg is center tapped and becomes the neutral to provide 120V circuits. I'm not sure if this has any issues. 480V three phase produces 277V between a phase and ground. In theory, my car is rated to handle 277V, but they talk about it not being rated for the tolerance or maybe the "real" world voltages you might see, so I would never consider using it.

Do you mean a UK kettle? US doesn't have appliances on 240V unless they are dryers and such. I think they encourage the use of plugs and outlets for stoves now, but not mandatory.

The bill isn't likely to tell you your baseload (the typical minimum usage). I have hourly readings and my "baseload" is around a quarter kW. Yup, 256W. It seems to measure in increments of 128W. I assume the meter counts Watt-Hours and they lop off the bottom seven bits, for this report. Taking the difference gives the values of 128, 256 and 384Wh usually. When the water heater is running, the number jumps up to 600 or 700 Wh for one hour. By internally counting in Wh and only truncating on the reports, the overall resolution is preserved.

I was being facious. There is no 220V power, it's all 240V in North America. Even a low voltage should be well above 220V. But their actually *is* a transformer that steps the voltage down from some thousands of volts to 240. They have taps to adjust the voltage to your house, so it's close to 240V. If the daily cycle of load causes excessive variation, someone undersized the wiring.

Yes, although the voltage tolerance is tighter on the high side, depending on the frequency of occurrence.

"Range A service voltage range is plus or minus 5% of nominal. The Range B utilization voltage range is plus 6% to minus 13% of nominal."

Range A is typical use. Range B is infrequent occurrences.

First, in the US, we are starting at 240V. Then we have different tolerances.