Tesla Self Driving

Any car that you have to have BOTH hands on the steering wheel ISN'T "self-driving." That is like training wheels for so-called "self-driving" cars.

The idea that drivers are going to pay attention to the road in autonomous vehicles seems beyond silly to me. Why have it if one has to do the things he'd do in a 1960s Ford Falcon?

Indeed, turning driving into a monitoring task is asking the human to do something humans are singularly bad at.

Sylvia.

These cars are not "self driving". I don't recall the terminology, but I believe they are rated on a scale of 1 to 5 and even with the newest software are only in the 2 category, meaning the driver is required to be in the loop.

Of course the car companies want to create the impression they are more autonomous than they really are, that's just marketing. We will see in the months and years coming if they have crossed any legal lines.

I will say that with enough use, the Tesla autopilot does seem to encourage a sense of disassociation from the task of staying alert. It also does not help that the method Tesla uses to detect driver awareness is very inaccurate, both not detecting an inattentive driver in some cases and falsely detecting a supposed inattentive driver frequently. I know this from personal use.

The death rate per mile driven is lower in Teslas using autopilot than in those not using autopilot... even with the drivers not paying close attention.

In order to obtain the "full self driving" beta software you have to pass a 30 day evaluation of your driving performance. The criteria include the g-forces measured in your driving. Teslas are claimed to avoid accidents when other vehicles cross into your lane. The other day I was driving on autopilot and someone strayed towards me rather quickly. I reacted ahead of the autopilot and twitched the wheel away from the intruder which I'm sure generated a significant g-force. I wonder if that would count against me in the evaluation? I have a hard time turning off my instinct to allow the car to protect me in such circumstances.

Another thing I've noticed is the muscle memory can work against you if autopilot is used a lot. I find there are times when I don't match my control over the car to the current driving mode, i.e. when on autopilot I find myself fighting the wheel thinking I'm driving (not so often) or much worse, when not on autopilot applying a gentle turning force to the wheel as the car drifts in the lane (more often, but quickly noticed). It's surprising that the car often will go some ways on the highway before it is obvious I have a mismatch.

Then there is the muscle memory kicking in thinking the autopilot is steering the car when I'm not driving a Tesla... lol Fortunately my Kia has a crude version of autopilot that prevents the car from leaving the lane. If I let it have the reigns it will drift between the left and right painted lines like a drunk! It makes an annoying sound when doing this, so it doesn't last too long.

They are actually not all that good at driving in general, so this stepping stone to a true autonomous vehicle isn't such a bad thing, especially since it is safer than a human driving by current measures. Autonomous vehicles are working to a low bar.

This is a year old commentary from Darren Smith. He's apparently a lawyer.

It seems against human nature to expect drivers to actually pay attention when their vehicles are supposedly self driving.

Incomplete, imperfect automation is worse than nothing. Such systems crash planes and cars, if not by creating a false sense of security, it's by interfering with the driver's decisions.

I hate it when a car brakes all by itself, or when it tugs on the wheel to stay in the centre of the lane. There can be only one captain on the ship.

Jeroen Belleman

This is a year old commentary from Darren Smith. He's apparently a lawyer.

It seems against human nature to expect drivers to actually pay attention when their vehicles are supposedly self driving.

Agree entirely. To stay concentrated, there has to be some level of excitement. Driving should be fun!

Jeroen Belleman

The problem with Tesla is that the idiotic protective measures are easily by-passed, by design or by mistake. There are plenty of stories or how-to by-pass Tesla's FSD protective requirements.

I actually love the autopilot aspect of the Tesla in terms of it steering the car down the center of the lane. It doesn't "tug" on the wheel to keep it there, it just steers. You are the one expected to communicate your presence by applying turning pressure on the wheel. That is very unnatural and I still get warnings from the car especially when I am focused on the road because of something potentially dangerous shaping up ahead. It seems I am distracted from pulling on the wheel a bit and the car gets upset. That's a nuisance. My Kia actually lets the car drift to the edge of the lane, sometimes with the wheels on the lane line bumps before it steers back. Sometimes it just doesn't steer back, but only sounds the warning tone.

It is the idiots doing the bypassing that are to blame. I might buy a steering wheel weight myself. Not so I can take my hands off the wheel, but to keep the durn alarm from sounding just because my hands aren't tugging hard enough. I like to drive with one hand at 12 o'clock. This puts no pressure on the wheel, so I have to rest it at 11 o'clock which is less comfortable. The important part of paying attention to the road, is paying attention to the road. Two hands on the wheel at 10 and 2 o'clock means no turning force and you have to remember to tug adequately. THAT'S a distraction in my book. I'm trying to look ahead, watch the mirrors and remember where all the cars are around me as they pass me or I pass them. I shouldn't need to remember to tug the wheel every 10 seconds.

Don't get me started on how distracting a touch screen in a car is. That's one thing I will fault Tesla on is the huge touch panels. Yes, any control that isn't already on the screen is a distraction to get to. Menus should be locked out when the car is in motion. The Tesla even has a BROWSER on the screen! No videos at least.

Some cut.

How would you indicate your alertness? Maybe a deadman's switch of some sort with a time delay?

Yeah, Boeing thought that their MCAS was smarter than the average pilot - they were WRONG!

I think I would rather ACTUALLY drive the car than be hostage to having a death grip on the wheel with BOTH hands!

I'm not sure how that might work. I've read that others are using a camera pointed at the driver to track the eyes. The models 3 and Y have such a camera even though there is no software to drive it as yet. My concern is that that software would not work any better than the auto head light dimmer or the auto intermittent wipers, both still in beta after years.

Let's face it, software is the bane of pretty much all things, yet we are slaves to it. Cell phones are 95% software and as a result never work quite right. We put up with it because we like all the gizmos. That behavior is not quite as cute in a car.

If the car has to protect you from yourself when the autopilot is on and steering the car, how does it protect you when *you* are driving without the autopilot? I suppose in that case you are free to kill yourself through inattention since it won't impact their autopilot accident numbers.

Maybe a wheel within a wheel like Ezekiel saw long ago. A wheel embedded in the steering wheel. It would be on the driver's side of it. A person would have to keep a little pressure on it to keep the auto pilot working. People squeeze steering wheels while driving so it wouldn't be too unnatural. The vehicle wouldn't start if there was pressure already on the wheel. That would be to discourage people from using tape or zip ties to keep the inner wheel depressed. There would be a short time delay to allow people to switch hands or positions on the steering wheel.

That would put us back to where we are now. Who hasn't been distracted by a pretty woman walking down the street?

I have Apple Car Play in my Toyota pickup. I used the map portion of my iPhone on a recent trip. That's really something. It tells me to turn at a stop sign, the second stop light or drive a hundred miles. It warned me there was a stop light trap once. The people who did that really did well.