Tektronix 2% Ag Solder

ips. They indicate you can get by with regular solder once or twice but too much and it breaks the bond.

at is a neat trick if that is how it is. Is that the reason for the silver ?

so special ? Does the silver make it less eutectic ? Or possibly MORE eute ctic ? Is it the thermal mass, conductivity or expansion coefficient ?

uys have a more rounded education and are more familiar with process.

xtreme high end audio with massive currents, I would rather hardwire it tha n use PC boards, do they make 40 oz. copper boards ? Right now I figure my best bet is to use the normal ones that have been around forever but to tak e and bed the top of each one over so the hole becomes a slot. I DO NOT wan t the lead wrapped all around there making it a PITA to change. It also mak es radiation, capacitance and inductance less predictable. That is obviousl y one of the reasons Tektronix used it.

s they came out with a new superconductor they haven't told me about. But c an 2% of it make much difference electrically ?

xample ? Or is there other things in it ? They never said there weren't. On e thing I learned is never to assume anything they don't say. I mean to the point if you see a box in the store that says TV, make sure it says COLOR TV. Like "This phone doesn't have that", "Why didn't you tell me ?", "You didn't ask". So even with that mini-ISB don't assume it can give you a rim job...

e would have the answer in 38 millisecods...

The connector strips are probably silver plated in selected areas. The silver in the solder stops the plating from being dissolved by the molten solder.

John

Right. But they haven't used these strips in many decades.

Some of my old scopes have a small spool of that solder inside.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

It might not be the silver content so much as the flux in the solder that came with the 2%AU stuff.

Modern water soluble, (etc.) solder flux may work better (or worse)...

John :-#)#

strips. They indicate you can get by with regular solder once or twice but too much and it breaks the bond.

that is a neat trick if that is how it is. Is that the reason for the silv er ?

are so special ? Does the silver make it less eutectic ? Or possibly MORE e utectic ? Is it the thermal mass, conductivity or expansion coefficient ?

u guys have a more rounded education and are more familiar with process.

. Extreme high end audio with massive currents, I would rather hardwire it than use PC boards, do they make 40 oz. copper boards ? Right now I figure my best bet is to use the normal ones that have been around forever but to take and bed the top of each one over so the hole becomes a slot. I DO NOT want the lead wrapped all around there making it a PITA to change. It also makes radiation, capacitance and inductance less predictable. That is obvio usly one of the reasons Tektronix used it.

less they came out with a new superconductor they haven't told me about. Bu t can 2% of it make much difference electrically ?

r example ? Or is there other things in it ? They never said there weren't. One thing I learned is never to assume anything they don't say. I mean to the point if you see a box in the store that says TV, make sure it says CO LOR TV. Like "This phone doesn't have that", "Why didn't you tell me ?", "Y ou didn't ask". So even with that mini-ISB don't assume it can give you a r im job...

, he would have the answer in 38 millisecods...

the roll I've been using since forever is SnPbAg 62/36/2 I think back when I got it was recommended for ceramic capacitors because they use(d?) silver in their terminations

...and that solder is tin/silver eutectic NOT suckie SAC which did not exist then.

ips. They indicate you can get by with regular solder once or twice but too much and it breaks the bond.

at is a neat trick if that is how it is. Is that the reason for the silver ?

sounds unlikely.

so special ? Does the silver make it less eutectic ? Or possibly MORE eute ctic ? Is it the thermal mass, conductivity or expansion coefficient ?

uys have a more rounded education and are more familiar with process.

xtreme high end audio with massive currents, I would rather hardwire it tha n use PC boards, do they make 40 oz. copper boards ?

You can always lay copper wire on PCB tracks. Soldering along the tracks is a less conductive option. Or islands rather than tracks.

round forever but to take and bed the top of each one over so the hole beco mes a slot.

Que?

e. It also makes radiation, capacitance and inductance less predictable. Th at is obviously one of the reasons Tektronix used it.

s they came out with a new superconductor they haven't told me about. But c an 2% of it make much difference electrically ?

no

xample ? Or is there other things in it ? They never said there weren't. On e thing I learned is never to assume anything they don't say. I mean to the point if you see a box in the store that says TV, make sure it says COLOR TV. Like "This phone doesn't have that", "Why didn't you tell me ?", "You didn't ask". So even with that mini-ISB don't assume it can give you a rim job...

e would have the answer in 38 millisecods...

I'm not familiar with it, but it's not going to be magic. Another way to ge t extreme low R would be to glue/solder thick copper wire down to tracks & solder components onto the thick wires. If it's really worth it.

NT

The 2% silver tin-lead solder was for use on ceramic terminal strips which had silver plating in the notches of an otherwise plain ceramic bar with mounting holes and no metal except for the silver plating. The silver in the solder was to keep it from dissolving the silver plating from the ceramic substrate - once that happens the connection falls off the terminal strip. No solder, silver bearing or not, will bond to unplated ceramic. I don't think I have seen these on anything made after the '60s, pretty much of historical interest only.

Indium solder will bond to glass and ceramic. An ultrasonic soldering iron helps a lot.

2% Ag in SnPb solder helps a lot when using ceramic packages with evaporated gold contacts. A few years back I was using some InGaAs photodiodes on packages like that--normal Sn63 solder ate the gold right off the ceramic, leaving nothing. (A bit of a heart-scald when your diodes cost $50 each and take weeks to get.)

InSn eutectic was fine, but so was 2% Ag in SnPb. The 2% stuff is much cheaper.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com

I'll never forget the first time I tried to solder some thin gold wire... and watched the whole thing disappear into the solder blob on the end of the iron.

GH

If you know that 62/36/2 (tin/lead/silver) is the proper solder to use on old Tektonix scopes, why are you looking for an alternative? Surely, it's not the price or availability. However, if you decide to try some other non-silver solder mix, I found a way to repair the inevitable damage after I made the same mistake. I suggest copper foil adhesive tape in place of the missing silver plating, and bury it under a blob of ordinary 63/37 solder to hold it in place.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

old Tektonix scopes, why are you looking for an alternative?

The question is mainly academic. It is pertinent to something going on as I consider different construction methods but it certainly is not price, the se things are not going to be cheap. Let's put it this way, I FINALLY found suitable parts for it and they are $360 each, and it takes two.

So being the expense is going to be very significant I would like to have a better construction method. I want really low stray capacitance, resistanc e and inductance and I want EMI extremely limited. This is a high end audio amp and it is not going to have any global feedback. The common collector drivers for the outputs have a tracking collector supply to keep them in th e most linear range, and each stage also sets its own gain. This approach i s rarely used because of - difficulties. The best part is still the output circuit. What I got has never been done as far as I know and I am familiar with tons of topologies. it is so unique I will not patent it. To kinda pro tect it I figure on the top and bottom I will cement acrylic sheets, look b ut don't touch.

This way it will probably take three years before the Chinese get their han ds on one, if I apply for a patent they get it right now. Now it looks like Trump is getting our intellectual property rights some respect from the Ch inese, in fact that is in there but coming more in phase two I think. I thi nk his attitude is right about them, it is like "You can make a little less money or none" which means 20% of their sales. Wouldn't kill them but woul d you like to live on 20% less ? He does have some mistakes under his belt but this ain't one of them.

Anyway, they ain't the only ones, there are even domestic copiers. All they have to do is make a few changes and sidestep the patent. I am thinking of spray paint maybe for the components. Long warranty, captive service like it is broke ? Well you can wait for a shipping container and send it and ge t another one, or we can put a hold on your card and just send it, as long as you send the old one back your card is not charged. I had something like that, it worked out because they gave me a box for it. I had thrown the or iginal one away, believe me I do not do that anymore. I got boxes for a who le bunch of stuff in a room in the basement now. Ugh, and we just bought a bunch off new shit and then got given some - some from my Aunt who moved fa r away so now there are three large TVs, five microwaves, and there are thr ee of us...

Anyway, that seems like the best plan. Take it apart and no warranty. But y ou can see it and "admire" its construction techniques.

There has to be something better out there than those strips they used in t he 1940s. And I refuse to scrap Tek scopes for them, that is like blasphemy of the first degree. Plus that limits availability, I might have to keep m aking these things if they catch on. And I know how to make them catch on. Not only is it different and will behave different I intend to use every di rty trick in the book to beat the others cold. Like manipulating the freque ncy response. Sure I can get it to within +/- 0.001dB, but spec it to +/-

1 and you got 2dB to play with. Sweeten the high and low end just a bit, ta ke out some harsh. Maybe add a little throat.

I don't even intend to try to hide that. them people are not really spec an al. If hey were they would not listen to single ended triodes. However bein g mostly even order distortion they might actually like it, the human voice is full of it. That's why AM transmitters make sure of the mic polarity, t hey want to up modulate, not down modulate. (you knew that I bet but I thre w it i anyway) With most any other type of modulation it means nothing.

Anyway, enough on that tangent. The other problem with this amp is the extr eme currents involved. It might only be 35 volts but at maybe 30 amps solid . That is arc welding language.

On Thursday, February 27, 2020 at 2:41:33 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

on old Tektonix scopes, why are you looking for an alternative?

I consider different construction methods but it certainly is not price, t hese things are not going to be cheap. Let's put it this way, I FINALLY fou nd suitable parts for it and they are $360 each, and it takes two.

a better construction method. I want really low stray capacitance, resista nce and inductance and I want EMI extremely limited. This is a high end aud io amp and it is not going to have any global feedback. The common collecto r drivers for the outputs have a tracking collector supply to keep them in the most linear range, and each stage also sets its own gain. This approach is rarely used because of - difficulties. The best part is still the outpu t circuit. What I got has never been done as far as I know and I am familia r with tons of topologies. it is so unique I will not patent it. To kinda p rotect it I figure on the top and bottom I will cement acrylic sheets, look but don't touch.

ands on one, if I apply for a patent they get it right now. Now it looks li ke Trump is getting our intellectual property rights some respect from the Chinese, in fact that is in there but coming more in phase two I think. I t hink his attitude is right about them, it is like "You can make a little le ss money or none" which means 20% of their sales. Wouldn't kill them but wo uld you like to live on 20% less ? He does have some mistakes under his bel t but this ain't one of them.

ey have to do is make a few changes and sidestep the patent. I am thinking of spray paint maybe for the components. Long warranty, captive service lik e it is broke ? Well you can wait for a shipping container and send it and get another one, or we can put a hold on your card and just send it, as lon g as you send the old one back your card is not charged. I had something li ke that, it worked out because they gave me a box for it. I had thrown the original one away, believe me I do not do that anymore. I got boxes for a w hole bunch of stuff in a room in the basement now. Ugh, and we just bought a bunch off new shit and then got given some - some from my Aunt who moved far away so now there are three large TVs, five microwaves, and there are t hree of us...

you can see it and "admire" its construction techniques.

the 1940s. And I refuse to scrap Tek scopes for them, that is like blasphe my of the first degree. Plus that limits availability, I might have to keep making these things if they catch on. And I know how to make them catch on . Not only is it different and will behave different I intend to use every dirty trick in the book to beat the others cold. Like manipulating the freq uency response. Sure I can get it to within +/- 0.001dB, but spec it to +/

- 1 and you got 2dB to play with. Sweeten the high and low end just a bit, take out some harsh. Maybe add a little throat.

anal. If hey were they would not listen to single ended triodes. However be ing mostly even order distortion they might actually like it, the human voi ce is full of it. That's why AM transmitters make sure of the mic polarity, they want to up modulate, not down modulate. (you knew that I bet but I th rew it i anyway) With most any other type of modulation it means nothing.

treme currents involved. It might only be 35 volts but at maybe 30 amps sol id. That is arc welding language.

Turret boards or standoffs are a lot cheaper.

Yes, as I'm sure you (but perhaps not others) know, it is used for attaching wires to ITO (Indium Tin Oxide) coated glass.

Also, I recently found out that ceramics can be brazed.

When my ship comes in, I'll buy an ultrasonic iron. They can do magic things even with 63SnPb, including soldering to aluminum without horrible corrosive ZnCl2/KCL flux.

Long ago at IBM, I used to borrow one from a colleague now and then.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com