strange LT Spice s/h behavior

I figured that I could bootstrap an LT Spice sample/hold to make a stairstep waveform.

Without the RC, the output jumps to +10 volts at the first clock edge. And the RC has to be right to get a proper stairstep.

Version 4 SHEET 1 880 680 WIRE 144 -128 32 -128 WIRE 240 -128 144 -128 WIRE 448 -128 320 -128 WIRE 144 -80 144 -128 WIRE 448 0 448 -128 WIRE 144 16 144 -16 WIRE 32 96 32 -128 WIRE 192 96 32 96 WIRE 192 128 32 128 WIRE 448 144 448 80 WIRE 448 144 368 144 WIRE 576 144 448 144 WIRE 32 160 32 128 WIRE 192 160 96 160 WIRE 96 208 96 160 WIRE 96 320 96 288 FLAG 96 320 0 FLAG 32 160 0 FLAG 144 16 0 SYMBOL SpecialFunctions\\sample 272 128 R0 WINDOW 0 -16 -113 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -56 -83 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName A1 SYMATTR Value ROUT=1m SYMBOL voltage 96 192 R0 WINDOW 0 48 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 21 110 Left 2 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 1 10u 1n 1n 500n 1u 1e6) SYMBOL voltage 448 -16 R0 WINDOW 0 57 42 Left 2 WINDOW 3 49 76 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value 500m SYMBOL res 336 -144 R90 WINDOW 0 77 55 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 85 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 1k SYMBOL cap 128 -80 R0 WINDOW 0 -56 19 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -59 49 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 10p TEXT -200 112 Left 2 !.tran 100u TEXT -216 8 Left 2 ;S/H Stairstep TEXT -224 56 Left 2 ;JL Aug 12 2022

Reply to
John Larkin
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Didn't try it out, but did you use the vanilla trap solver or the tricky one?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Mod trap, alternate. I'll try something else.

Reply to
John Larkin

Control panel, spice, reset to default (mod trap, normal solver) it behaves the same.

Reply to
John Larkin

So it works with the RC - suggests a linear condition is permitted at the sampling time. Perhaps the internal gates aren't timed to prevent signal shoot-through.

RL

Reply to
legg

I can't understand it. Even 1K and 1 fF allows it to make a staircase. But 1K and 0 fF doesn't.

Obviously something is goofy inside the s/h model, but I wouldn't know how to accomplish that.

I can do what I want to do, by adding an RC, but I don't understand it.

Reply to
John Larkin

Even the RC is dicey. The best thing is to add a delay line at the s/h input.

Reply to
John Larkin

Stick 50R in series with the SH inputs and look at the voltages on each side of the resistor. This shouldn't normally 'break' a S/H, should it?

RL

Reply to
legg

The S/H input has no current flow.

Perhaps the modeler forgot a default zin.

RL

Reply to
legg

In a sim where the staircase ends prematurely (C1<=1f), C1 has no current during the final, out-sized signal rise, though it shows well defined values in previous 'normal' steps.

RL

Reply to
legg

<snip>

LTspice group on io says the sample is instantaneous without internal delays - that direct gain is possible. Uncommented defaulkt output Z is iK. A Td statement will have no effect.

Says not to worry - you can't buy one of these anyways.

RL

Reply to
legg

It's still very weird.

A few people used to make analog s/h chips, but I think they are gone.

Reply to
jlarkin

Actually, there are some.

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Reply to
John Larkin

The 'sample' subcircuit is not a model of any of these parts, hence the purchasing non-information.

RL

Reply to
legg

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