Solder sniffers beware,,, lead = bad

I've done some research on this as well. Any heavy metal poisoning will eventually find its way to the nervous system. Once there it will stay and not be detectable in a blood test. So you have to go with other diagnostic methods. The chelating materials will help over a long time but metals are like sand in your shoes. You will never get rid of it completely.

When I was about 10 my dad brought home a bottle of pure Mercury. He showed us how cool it was on a steel plate and warned us not to touch it. Nice of him huh?

Later when he was not home we broke into the cabinet where it was and proceeded to play with it. "Oh cool how it beads up in your hands, see how it pours from one hand to the other!"

We did that for several hours until all of it had dissipated or fell on the floor etc. Vapors are supposed to worse since it gets directly into the blood stream via your lung. Never said anything to my dad and he was never curious about the empty bottle. Nothing ever came of it. 30 Years later I was researching my newly diagnosed ADHD and found that mercury poisoning is suspected as a cause. And a little memory suddenly snapped up from my past. I made a Doc appointment and had several viles of blood taken for a wide variety of tests but nothing was abnormal. I took a bunch of chelating minerals and vitamins for several months but never noticed a difference.

I may have had an acute mercury poisoning when I was 10 but over time one incident may not be as significant. Breathing lead on a regular basis may have more of an impact. I would think that if it were that damaging that all kinds of safe handling practices would be implemented even controlled. But, it would not be the first time a known toxic substance was sold to the public without any warnings.

X

I thought it was mercury.

bet you smell funny, like an Indian or a Mexican ;P

on

Hide quoted text -

that's interesting. I swear milk tastes better.different packaged in glass bottles.

Furthermore, folklore has given rise to the use of various high sulfur foods as "chelating agents". These include onions, garlic, green foods and sea-weeds. Sulfur supplements like MSM or NAC have also been used. These are not actually chelating agents, as chelators involve multiple bonds to the metal atom and these foods and supplements involve compounds that are only mono-thiols. Cilantro has also been introduced [3] and is present in numerous alternative medications like "PCA-Rx", "Metal-Free" (both of which also contain ALA) and "NDF". Since no one seems to know what chelating substances may or may not be in cilantro, and since chelators can be dangerous due to their movement of neurotoxic heavy-metals, they should be approached with caution. In general Cilatro consists of an extract of Coriander fructus, being a plant cultivated in The Netherlands, France, Germany, Italy, Russia. The ingredient used by pharmacists and doctors is an etheric oil (0,5% w/w). Main part of this oil is (+)-Linalool (60% w/v). The chemical name of Linalool is 3,7-dimethyl-1-6-octadien-3-ol. It is also called Coriandroleum, reflecting its origin from Coriander fructus. The boiling point of Linalool ist 198 - 200 degrees Celsius. Other ingredients of the oil are Limonen, Geraniol, Citronellol, and Borneol, all having a similar chemical structure as Linalool, i.e. they are terpenes. Another molecule present in the oil is trans- tridecen-2-al-1 an aldehyde, being responsible for the tpical smell of Fructus coriander (like bugs). Geraniol is the isomeric form of Linalool and found in the oil of rose and palmarosa. The pharmacological action of terpenes such as Linalool is mainly spasmolytic and carminative. Similar action are known from the etheric oils of Fructus chamomillae and Fructus foeniculi. Due to the combintion of spasmolytic and carminative action of the terpenes heavy metals are excreated via increasing the renal flux and the G.I. tract. Neither Fructus coriander nor terpenes are capable of chelating heavy metals such as mercury or lead due to the lack of sulfur, nitrogen, or an organic acid structure within the chemical molecule. Fructus coriander is present in Mexican salsa and can kill bacteria such as Salmonella typhi. Similar pharmacological action are transmitted by the oil of Carvi fructus, i.e. Carvi aethericum. Spasmolytic and carminative acting remedies should be used carefully for detoxification of heavy metals, because of the lack of chelating power. If the concentration of heavy metals in the urine increases to over 17 microgramm / gramm creatinine then the epithelium of the promimal tubulus of the kidney might be destroyed by the heavy metal, since it is not "detoxified " by a chelating agent. Lesions of the epithelium are, hoewever, reversible.

Before you start fooling around with dangerous selenium compounds read this excerpt from on the the selenium compound MSDS sheets. Animals have died from eating plants containing as little as 5 PPM of selenium. Just recently there was a recall because some company accidentally let sunburned potatoes be bagged and sold to the consumer. Not nice stuff at all!

Selenium compounds are poison by inhalation and intravenous routes. Some selenium compounds are experimental carcinogens. Long-term exposure may be a cause of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis in humans, just as it may cause "blind staggers" in cattle. Elemental Selenium has low acute systemic toxicity, but dust or fumes can cause serious irritation of the respiratory tract. Inorganic selenium compounds can cause dermatitis. Garlic odor of breath is a common symptom. Pallor, nervousness, depression, digestive disturbances and death have been reported in cases of chronic exposure (Sax, Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials, eighth edition).

That's a new one on me. I had always understood rosin to be a fairly benign material - at least when not heated up - made from naturally occuring pine resin. Is the zinc chloride something that has been added in to make the rosin suitable for some specific purpose ?

Arfa

Talking of eating the stuff ...

When I was a kid, myself and a couple of friends all had air guns, that we used to take out with us on all day forays during the school summer holidays. We used to buy a box of lead pellets each, and tip great wads of them into our mouths, because it was quicker to snatch a nice spit-lubricated reload from your mouth, than it was to rummage amongst the fluff and half eaten jelly babies in your pockets ... We used to roll these things around in our mouths for hours. 40 years on, I'm still here, and my brain is still less addled than even my own ( apparently well-educated ) kids ! If lead was all that easily ingested, then my pellet activities, coupled with living in a house with all lead water pipes for the first 21 years of my life, must have ensured that I now weigh several pounds heavier than I really should ... !!

Arfa

With the amount of amalgam in my mouth, I reckon that I must already be two points to the right of dead then ...

Arfa

"Librarian" as in Unseen University ?

Arfa

I recall making some for a PC production line from water white rosin.

--- No, it doesn't.

Some fluxes often called "acid fluxes" contain zinc chloride, but it can't be used for electrical work because it's corrosive.

-- JF

--
And zinc chloride?

Well, I must say that sounds like something _you\'d_ pull.

There's no way to tell - all of the researchers do their cooking with aluminum, so nobody trusts their results. ;-)

Cheers! Rich

=CE=B7 =CE=B2 =CF=80

Man have I woofed up volumes of "solder smoke" over the 25+ years on the bench. I used to love walking into the shop on a cold clear morning and waft in the mixture of rosin, pipe, and cigar smoke floating through the air. There is nothing wrong with me these days, just ask my son, either head will tell you so.

--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

COOSN-266-06-25794

If i remember correctly, selenium is a poison also, and presumedly it makes your sweat smell like a stinky skunk.

Agreed. Right now I'm heavilay involved in trying to finish some projects which thanks to Hurricane Katrina are running almost a year behind. In about 1 more week I should be caught up to the point where I'll be satisfied enough to take a break and get the blood work done, but also something I've been planning to do for a long time. Get my frikken crumbling teeth taken care of.

I find it rather interesting that I haven't been to a dentist in over 20 years and the only teeth that I am having any problems with are the teeth that have supposedly been saved by dentists. Every tooth in my mouth that was never touched by a dentist is just fine.

If I had it to do over again, I would have never had any work done on my teeth unless I had some severe problem that without a doubt required action. As it is, I never ever had a toothache or anything. In every case, I was informed by dentists in the course of routine checkups that I had cavities that needed to be fixed. In one case, the dentist yanked all 4 of my rear molars claiming that I'd be glad I did later on in life. Well he couldn't have been more wrong. In fact, I'm really sorry I let da' bastahd do it )`: I think he might have been gouging the medicaid system in California, and I was young and naive at the time.

: : > To make a long story short, for the last couple : >of months I've been munching mass quantities : > of Cilantro, about 1 bunch/day. : > Also I've been supplementing with selenium. : : If you really have high lead content, you'll probably get to take some : strong chelating agents made with mercaptans. It will be great. : (Known to clear an entire building due to the odor) : : > I also read about how lead poisoning was what : >made the Hat makers go mad and is where the : >expression "Mad Hatter" came from. : : That would be mercury, but that would make for a great cocktail.

Yeah, I guess that's right. I think stumbled on that story whilst researching lead poisoning which is why I probably got it mixed up with lead.

: : > BTW, also I have a lot of dental fillings : > starting to break lose, so I have to wonder : >if some of the metal toxicity might also be : >a result of mercury from crumbling amalgum. : : After denying possible problems for years, many dentists are now : discontinuing use of mercury for some reason.

probably the reason, mercury is frikken toxic !!! :-)

They don't want you to eat fish more than twice a week, yet everyday a person get's something like ten times the amount from their amalgum fillings.

: : > At any rate, whatever the cause, heaping servings : >of Cilantro and a supplement of selenium seem : >to be keeping it in check. : > I plan to look into Chlorella which also is : >purported to have chelating properties. : : Hadn't heard that one.

Metals block the neuro receptors in the brain. One thing I've noticed since I've been self chelating, is that it no longer seems to take as much coffee to get the lead out of my ass (pun intended) in the morning.

: > Not long ago I started noticing that when I would : > play the guitar I was missing a lot of the strings. : > Also I was doing weird stuff like bumping into : > the edges of doorways on occasion, : > instead of gracefully passing through them. : > Sometimes when standing still, it would feel like : > my feet were sliding apart in this kinda weird : > almost spinning sensation. Sometimes numbness : > in the hands. : >

: > Anyway, finally, it dawned on me that perhaps : > 30 years involved in electronics with a good : > 20 of them heavily involved in prototyping guitar : > amp designs, might have taken it's toll. So I did some : > research online and discovered that indeed my symptoms : > just might well be those of lead poisoning. : >

: > To make a long story short, for the last couple : > of months I've been munching mass quantities : > of Cilantro, about 1 bunch/day. : > Also I've been supplementing with selenium. : >

: > Both supposedly have chelating agents in them that : > can help rid the body of metals. : > Anyway, after about 2 month's of this, I am noticing : > my coordination has improved immensely : > when playing the guitar, and no more : > weird numbness or spinning sensations as of late. : >

: > I suppose this is all a bit anecdotal, but thought I'd relay : > my experience anyway FWIW. : >

: > I also read about how lead poisoning was what : > made the Hat makers go mad and is where the : > expression "Mad Hatter" came from. : >

: > This struck me a bit funny since my wife : > and I have an animal shelter for cats. I'm : > thinking about changing my screen name to : > "The Mad Catter" :-) : >

: > BTW, also I have a lot of dental fillings : > starting to break lose, so I have to wonder : > if some of the metal toxicity might also be : > a result of mercury from crumbling amalgum. : >

: > At any rate, whatever the cause, heaping servings : > of Cilantro and a supplement of selenium seem : > to be keeping it in check. : > I plan to look into Chlorella which also is : > purported to have chelating properties. : : sensible thing would be get a blood lead test, as you may be barking : up the wrong tree otherwise. Or meowing. : : Is there genuine evidence for the chelating effects of the things you : mention? : : Re nutritional supplements, lead does some of its harm by competing in : the body with iron, calcium and zinc. Thus some of the effects can be : reduced by increasing levels of these minerals to the upper end of : what is healthy. In so doing one must also raise levels of the : minerals iron, calcium and zinc compete with, to prevent deficiencies. : : Vitamin C is also a weak lead chelator. See wikipedia's lead poisoning : article. : : But all this is only useful if you actually do have a lead problem. : You need to find out, vague guesses arent much good. : : : NT

True vague guesses aren't much good, but in my case the things I'm doing have really made a huge difference. I was to the point where I could hardly play the guitar. It was really weird. I didn't really feel as though I was uncoordinated or anything, but when I'd try to play I would miss strings that I rally thought I was going to hit. It was like there was some kinda disconnect from the brain to the muscles. Now I'm tearin it up again.

I suppose I should mention that I started taking L-Carnitine and Coenzyme Q-10 also. Not because of my suspicions about possible lead poisoning, but simply because they're suppose to be good for cell rejuvenation in general. At my ripe old age of

52, one begins to think about such things :-) So I suppose there's the possiblity that these supplements mighta played a part in the turn around, dunno.

I plan to get tested fairly soon, and when I do, I'll post a follow up.

:

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:K4wHh.37822$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net... : : "Dave Moore" wrote in message : news:W7vHh.3913$B7.2859@bigfe9... : > Damn, for almost a week I have been forgetting to : > post about my recent experience. So, since : > I finally remembered; : >

: > Not long ago I started noticing that when I would : > play the guitar I was missing a lot of the strings. : > Also I was doing weird stuff like bumping into : > the edges of doorways on occasion, : > instead of gracefully passing through them. : > Sometimes when standing still, it would feel like : > my feet were sliding apart in this kinda weird : > almost spinning sensation. Sometimes numbness : > in the hands. : >

: > Anyway, finally, it dawned on me that perhaps : > 30 years involved in electronics with a good : > 20 of them heavily involved in prototyping guitar : > amp designs, might have taken it's toll. So I did some : > research online and discovered that indeed my symptoms : > just might well be those of lead poisoning. : >

: > To make a long story short, for the last couple : > of months I've been munching mass quantities : > of Cilantro, about 1 bunch/day. : > Also I've been supplementing with selenium. : >

: > Both supposedly have chelating agents in them that : > can help rid the body of metals. : > Anyway, after about 2 month's of this, I am noticing : > my coordination has improved immensely : > when playing the guitar, and no more : > weird numbness or spinning sensations as of late. : >

: > I suppose this is all a bit anecdotal, but thought I'd relay : > my experience anyway FWIW. : >

: > I also read about how lead poisoning was what : > made the Hat makers go mad and is where the : > expression "Mad Hatter" came from. : >

: > This struck me a bit funny since my wife : > and I have an animal shelter for cats. I'm : > thinking about changing my screen name to : > "The Mad Catter" :-) : >

: > BTW, also I have a lot of dental fillings : > starting to break lose, so I have to wonder : > if some of the metal toxicity might also be : > a result of mercury from crumbling amalgum. : >

: > At any rate, whatever the cause, heaping servings : > of Cilantro and a supplement of selenium seem : > to be keeping it in check. : > I plan to look into Chlorella which also is : > purported to have chelating properties. : >

: >

: >

: Lead as a metal does not fume at soldering temperatures, such that it can be : ingested in that way. The fumes and vapour that you see when soldering, are : from the flux contained in the solder, burning away. There is some evidence : that prolongued exposure to the rosin based fluxes used to date, can cause : respiratory tract ailments such as industrial asthma, and may in extreme : circumstances be carcinogenic. The fluxes that are now being used with the : new-fangled lead-free solder that has been forced on us in Europe as a : result of new legislation, are quite acidic, and very aggressive compared to : the previous rosin compounds, so bench ventilation is now rather more : important than it was. : : It may be possible to suffer a degree of lead poisoning from continuous : handling of the basic metal, although it is a fairly inert material that is : not generally associated with absorption through the skin, unlike beryllium : for instance which is used elsewhere in electronics. Some commentators have : also refuted that there is any free lead toxicity issue with solder, as it : is a stable alloy with tin, and chemically locked in. Even over 30 years of : handling the stuff daily ( as indeed I have myself ), it is unlikely that : you would have ingested as much lead as you would have from the exhausts of : gasoline powered vehicles in say a year, prior to the switchover to unleaded : some years back. Once you have metal deposits in your body, I understand : that it is very difficult to drive them out, which is why this kind of : toxicity is cumulative. : : There has been some suggestion that in ye olden tymes, people were : lead-poisoned by drinking wine and cider from mugs made of pewter : (traditionally, another tin / lead alloy of the ratio of about 4 :1, but can : have other components also). The acidity of the drink supposedly broke down : the alloy, and dissolved the lead, giving it a nice route into the body. : : Many people now seem to suffer "short-term memory loss". People everywhere : joke about it. One of the games console makers have even brought out a : memory training game that they have been advertising on tv over here using : the TV presenter from "Millionaire". I know people who have never worked : with solder in their lives, or any form of lead come to that, who claim that : they can be thinking of something that they have to say, and by the time : they come to say it, it's gone ... Sound familiar ? This is reaching : epidemic proportions over here, so what's the cause ? Crap that they're : putting in the food ? The water ? Genetically modded oils that they are : cooking stuff in ? Much more worrying, I think, than lead from solder ... : : Arfa

Thanks for the opinions, All I can say is that I have been handling the holy hell out of the stuff for a hell of a long time.. Consider this, I would solder some stuff then pick up the guitar play a bit. Then solder some more, play a bit more, on and on for maybe 12 hours/day at times. So now picture this on a 'time off' off day (a real rarity:-) I waltz into the room play a bit of guitar then break for a sandwich. What just happened here? I've just unthinkingly transfered the lead that's accumulated on my guitar strings to my sandwich. Scarf the sandwich, then it's in the body.