There is no such thing as a converter to go PC serial UART to host USB. ( Host is what a PC USB port must be, to be able to talk to slave USB devices, like memory sticks, printers etc )
Since you can now buy cheap laptop/netbooks in the $200-$500 range, why would you bother with trying to use such ancient stuff in this way ?
-- Regards, Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.
I'd like to take this opportunity to display my ignorance.
I know that serial to USB adapters exist, but there are some that require drivers and some that don't. I also know that many, if not most, are inten ded to permit the connection of "legacy" serial devices to newer computers that have USB but not serial ports.
I have the opposite problem.
I have an ancient Toshiba Libretto 70CT computer running Win98SE that act ually works. It has *only* an IRDA 1.0 port and a 16 bit (Type II) PCMCIA s lot built in.
It came with a port expander that makes available a 5-Pin SVGA video port , a 25-Pin Parallel (8 bit ECP) port, and a 9-Pin Serial (16550 UART compli ant) port.
Those are the only ways to get data into (like drivers I might need for a USB to serial adapter) and out of the device without getting extremely luc ky and finding a compatible PCMCIA floppy drive or USB adapter, and I haven 't managed to find either one.
Is there a relatively simple serial to USB dongle available that doesn't require drivers to be installed, that will work with Win98, and isn't expen sive and/or rare? (Yes, I know it will be slow and no, I don't mind.)
Is it feasible to build such a thing?
If it came down to it I'd have no problem scavenging the necessary chips from my stock of older computers and installing them into the PCI bus, exce pt for the inconvenient fact that the Libretto doesn't *have* a PCI bus, ju st VESA and ISA.
The docking connector for the port expander has pins available to attach keyboard, P/S2 mouse, serial, parallel, and video connectors for the advent urous (who don't have an expander) and all kinds of other stuff that's of n o help to me.
I've done what due diligence I can via Google but the information out the re is mostly about playing old games on it. That's not what I had in mind.
Any help will be appreciated.
Mark L. Fergerson
To be clear: you want to be able to push data out a *built in* (more or less) "COM" port and, through the magic of an unnamed device, be able to get that datastream to... "what"? How do you layer the USB protocol onto the serial port's data stream?
[Think about the problem in those terms... doesn't really make sense]Getting *to* a serial datastream from some *other* machine might require a USBserial adapter on that *other* machine...
Are you trying to get stuff into, out of -- or both -- the W98 machine?
The most general purpose solution would be a PCMCIA network adapter. After that, a PCMCIA USB2 adapter.
To get the drivers onto the laptop, use a serial file transfer program (I forget what W98 has available "stock") to copy them from some other machine via *its* serial port.
Once there (as a file on C:), you can install the driver, then the PCMCIA card.
[You could probably also use a PCMCIA disk drive -- "microdrive" -- as a transport medium (assuming you have another machine that has PCMCIA slots to push the file(s) onto the microdrive]Or, have I missed something in your explanation?
Easiest option is to use a PCMCIA to flash card adapter to load software. If there's a resident IR driver, you may be able to use IR to get files in and out. There are parallel port file transfer programs, but they may not run on a recent computer. For a one-time install, you can pull the hard drive and copy the files directly.
If you want a live USB host port controlled by win98 thru a serial port, you have several issues. Does Win98 support USB? If a serial to USB adapter exists, you probably can't afford it. The cheapo ones are USB to serial.
There are serial to bluetooth converters that work well. I use one to connect a Palm Pilot to a PC for real-time data transfer.
If you'd disclose exactly what your end goal is, other options may present. The general case is often harder than necessary.
I haven't heard of one. USB is a complex protocol, and it's not possible to simply "layer" it on top of a serial port connection without drivers on the host side.
What I'd suggest, as an alternative, is that you look to networking.
You should be able to use the serial port, with the Windows network stack, to set up a "PPP" (point-to-point protocol) network connection. You'd need a PPP server... which you can run on almost any other Windows PC or Linux PC.
You would connect the laptop's serial port to another PC serial port (either "native", or USB-to-serial) via a simple serial cable (a "null modem", which is similar in concept to an Ethernet crossover cable). Start up the PPP server on your host PC, then tell your laptop to start a PPP client session.
Shazam. You'll have a network connection between the two PCs, over the serial cable, which can support TCP/IP, SMB ("Samba") Windows file and printer sharing, and so forth. You should be able to run the connection at 56 kbits/second, and possibly twice that... adequate for a lot of file upload/download purposes.
A faster approach would be for you to find a PCMCIA Ethernet card... these are dirty-cheap at my local computer surplus store, because almost nobody uses them these days. There are probably PCMCIA-compatible (i.e. non-Cardbus) WiFi cards available as well, although I'm not sure about that.
Den tirsdag den 26. maj 2015 kl. 23.52.12 UTC+2 skrev snipped-for-privacy@bid.nes:
re drivers and some that don't. I also know that many, if not most, are int ended to permit the connection of "legacy" serial devices to newer computer s that have USB but not serial ports.
ctually works. It has *only* an IRDA 1.0 port and a 16 bit (Type II) PCMCIA slot built in.
rt, a 25-Pin Parallel (8 bit ECP) port, and a 9-Pin Serial (16550 UART comp liant) port.
a USB to serial adapter) and out of the device without getting extremely l ucky and finding a compatible PCMCIA floppy drive or USB adapter, and I hav en't managed to find either one.
t require drivers to be installed, that will work with Win98, and isn't exp ensive and/or rare? (Yes, I know it will be slow and no, I don't mind.)
s from my stock of older computers and installing them into the PCI bus, ex cept for the inconvenient fact that the Libretto doesn't *have* a PCI bus, just VESA and ISA.
h keyboard, P/S2 mouse, serial, parallel, and video connectors for the adve nturous (who don't have an expander) and all kinds of other stuff that's of no help to me.
here is mostly about playing old games on it. That's not what I had in mind .
but why bother? 120MHz pentium it is barely fast enough to work as a doors top
-Lasse
Do you have an Ethernet port? I have been working with an eval board and have used a raspberryPi as a remote serial port server. The way I've done it is to actually run the software on the pi via a remote command line on the PC, but I'm sure you can use the USB serial port devices as if they were on a PC. I can't imagine networking software isn't still compatible with W98.
BTW, I think a model A+ rPi can be had for $20 now.
-- Rick
It sounds like you want to get data off of the hard drive that is currently installed in the Libretto. Assuming that is the case:
The fastest way to transfer a lot of data will be to disassemble it and extract the hard drive. Then, use an adapter cable to break out the 44- pin laptop-sized IDE connector on the hard drive to a 40-pin desktop- sized IDE connector and power connector. Plug that into a desktop that has an IDE port, and copy data from the Libretto hard drive via IDE.
Second fastest is to extract the hard drive as above, then plug it into a USB-to-IDE dongle, then plug that dongle into another PC. I have done this before and it works well. I have this adapter, which cost me $25 at the local computer store several years ago; other makes will work as well.
If you can come up with another PC with a serial port, and a null modem cable, you should be able to use Hyperterminal on the Libretto to first receive a better terminal program (such as IVT) from the other PC. (If I remember right, Hyperterminal supports barely enough file transfer protocols to actually transfer binary files correctly.) Then use the better terminal program to receive a copy of zip from the other PC. Then use zip to package up the files of interest on the Libretto hard drive, and the better terminal program to send the zip files over to the other PC. This is slow, but should work with the available software.
If you look around enough, you can probably find a PCMCIA Ethernet card or USB card, but then you have the problem of getting the driver disk into the Libretto. You could probably use the serial-port method above to get the driver disk files on the Libretto hard drive, and then point Windows at them when it says "where are the drivers for this".
I made a PCMCIA USB card work on a late-90s Toshiba Tecra with Win98, but it wasn't straightforward. As I recall, I plugged in the USB card and got some kind of driver error in a particular DLL file. I then got the *Windows ME* version of that DLL from the internets and used it to replace the Win98 DLL. I got a little further and got another error, and installed two or three more WinME DLLs. I may have also done some fooling around in the Registry; I don't remember for sure. When I got done, it worked well enough to support a USB flash drive on the PCMCIA USB adapter.
Where I live, there is an electronics recycling and used computer place that sometimes has obsolete stuff like PCMCIA cards. If they don't have it on the shelf, sometimes places like this will write down what you want and give you a call if one of them comes in. (If you happen to be in Kansas City or near Vancouver, BC, I can recommend a store in either place.) Ebay is another option.
Matt Roberds
The rPi may not have telnetd turned on. You can also use sshd from the PC. I have no idea if PuTTY will work on W98 or not. I expect it should.
"Telnet is not secure and shouldn?t be used in a production environment unless there is no other choice."
Yep. You can also use a Cubie as a remote, Ethernet-connected USB farm. I just haven't tried same with a RasPi.
There's a $5 USB 485 port that works great on this class machine:
I have no idea what the practical upper limit for number of ports might be. Many. Oh so useful...
-- Les Cargill
Yep, you succeeded in doing just that. You described everything except what you are trying to accomplish. The mythical serial to USB port is just a means to whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
I'll make a guess(tm). You're trying to move massive amounts of data off the Libretto 70CT. That's going to be an interesting experience at maybe 112Kbits/sec serial data rate. Give up on that idea while you're still sane and sober.
The Toshiba Libretto 70CT includes a Type II PCMCIA slot. You can shove a PCMCIA (not CardBus) ethernet or wireless card into the slot, load an Win98SE driver, and move megabloats of data faster and easier than through a slow serial port.
If you can't find a suitable old PCMCIA card, I probably have something in my collection. Bug me at the email address in the signature.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Why is a question that nobody asks for such hobbies. I can see that you're not into retro-computing: There's a certain magic and challenge getting the old machines working. I have a few antiques that qualify awaiting sufficient spare time to restore them to working condition. The Libretto series is rather marginal as an antique, but was deemed the "hot ticket" for portable computing in its day:
As for speed, I suggest you find something with a P166MMX chip and install Windoze 98SE. Then compare the speed at which they do common tasks with a "modern" machine. Not benchmarks but actually doing something useful, like writing and printing a letter or starting a big program like a web browser. I think you'll find that the old Win98SE machines are somewhat faster than today's miracles of software bloat and OS sludge.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Don't ever assume that PCs are slow because of the OS. I'm pretty confident that the slowness a 4 or 5 year old machine experiences running a browser is because of the browser, not the OS. Mostly they use a ton more memory. Even the light browsers on the rPi run dog slow and on a P7 with 16 GB of RAM they slow down and hog all the RAM when I open a number of tabs. I expect they are doing useful things with all that memory, but if you had the option of using a browser from 5 years ago it would do so much better on a memory limited machine I am sure.
-- Rick
It's not always a "hobby"; sometimes it is an expedient! I.e., if you already have a working machine -- some particular OS, some particular set of apps (that were, presumably, useful to you at *some* point in time!) -- but aren't motivated to upgrade it (because you wanted to buy new, etc.), then why DISCARD it? Esp if it's something the size of a laptop?
I have an old Sony laptop that is delightfully small -- no floppy *or* optical drive. It takes up less space in my briefcase than a clean shirt! It still has some word processing apps on it, an old compiler, text editor, etc. Copy my working files onto it and it's just perfect for travel!
OTOH, I lament an old laptop that had a built in AC adapter! So much more convenient than having to keep track of a brick!
I have a (heavy!) P4 portable on which I've installed all sorts of diagnostic software. So, I can debug serial protocols, SCSI, network analysis, etc. It's also my go to machine for 3" floppies (e.g., for the Unisite).
I also keep a Compaq Portable 386 (lunchbox) as it gives me access to 5" floppies and a pair of ISA slots (I have some legacy hardware -- add-in cards -- that won't run in a PCI machine).
I wish I had kept my SPARC LX but it was taking up space and not actually *doing* anything (that couldn't easily be done with something else). And, I would have liked to hold onto a NeXT cube (as some of the software I am exploring would run more readily, there)
They are also handy as "cheap prototypes" for projects. E.g., I hacked together my proof-of-concept prototype for my network speakers using the lunchbox, an old (well documented) sound card and an old NIC. The slower processor in the lunchbox made it much more realistic to see what I could achieve with *cheap* silicon, nowadays (prototyping on a 3GHz machine would be deceptive)
The lunchbox is pretty retro -- e.g., plasma display. I've also got a Sun Voyager that similarly qualifies as "cool".
+1To be fair, though, you're not going to be doing as FANCY things as you can, today. E.g., rebuilding a kernel on the lunchbox is like watching grass grow! So, I don't use *that* box for *that* purpose! Simple!
I sorely miss being able to run Brief on any of my modern machines. I think much of it was written in ASM and relied on "timing loops", etc. instead of system services. So, lean on a key and it repeats 20,000,000 times before you can get your finger off the keyboard! :-/
Yes, you did. At no point did you state what it is you want to connect to or do.
Assuming you're not trolling, the best option for getting data in and out of the machine is a 16 bit CardBus to Compact Flash adapter (PCMCIA is the slot for CardBus cards which come in 16 and 32 bit versions).
It's unlikely that you would need a driver for such a card.
All peripheral hardware requires drivers.
Do you still have this expander? if so why do you need usb serial?
IRDA is serial
what's your goal again?
-- umop apisdn
Good idea, but a few problems. Cardbus won't fit or work in the Toshiba Libretto 70CT. According to the data sheet, it has to be either PCMCIA Type I or II. Type III is too thick to fit. Type II will do 16 or 32 bits and take both 3.3v and 5.0v cards:
True. That's because Compact Flush is just a smaller version of the PCMCIA connector standard. If you tear apart the adapter, there is nothing but wires inside. I couldn't find a schematic, but this has some useful comments:
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
The Libretto 70CT did not come with a built in ethernet port. Data sheet: However, one can be added with a PCMCIA Type II (16 bit) card.
Yep. Windoze 98SE TCP/IP works nicely with modern operating systems. Win 98SE NETBIOS over TCP/IP is kinda marginal, especially dealing with logins/passwords/authentication/etc. I don't recall the details. FTP should be good enough.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
No. See above. That would require the PCMCIA-Ethernet card I haven't been able to find.
I still have to be able to get driver files onto the 70CT's HD *first*.
Mark L. Fergerson
The majority of coders out there that write desktop software are no longer real coders. They hang on the internet using plug in components for which many of them did the same for the component Lib they offered. These lazy drag and drop tools have made a lot of self claimed programmers that for most barely understand how the compuer works.
What you end up with is a set of software tools that has been put together with various tools which has also gone out and fetched libs from wild sources. All and in all, you have an large program that has a lot of repeated code which makes it bloatware.
And when something goes wrong with one of the found LIBs from the net or other backdoor sources, normally authors of the completed app are not able to fix it. But they sure do have lots of excuses, the normal root is to make you down load a complete new app that is totally rebuilt with yet some other open source libs that they know just barely enough about to get it operating and very little support.
With out stating any produce names here, I know of at least three packages many people use that are total bloatware and due to the fact that many of the basic functions needed were linked in to the product from other complete programs concealing it from the user but, it makes the app very slow to start up due to all the code that is getting loaded which for most of it never gets executed but only the operations needed are brought to the front and linked into the user part of the app. This crap started back in the days when managers found out they could use a product like VB and create their own software and fired the majority of the real programmers. Of course, many businesses suffered on that misstake but it's hard to convince managers of reality at times it seems.
Jamie
If file transfers is the only interest here, then all that is needed is to install a FTP server on the old laptop, this is assuming it has a ethernet port.. From there any one can log into it get files and place files on it etc...
I've also seen sound card linking made to move files, of course that requires some CRC handshaking to make sure things make it.
WHen you need to do such things it does require times some extra know how... But to get the old unit to accept any USB device? I don't see that happening.
Of course you could also use VNC/PC anywhere type of app and use the old brick for a keyboard and screen !
Jamie
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