scope for hobbyist who hopes to eventually design circuits

Does he really need 200 MHz? The 50 MHz Rigol is going for $329 now.

Hard to beat that with a stick, George H.

Unless the guy is living in an apartment and space is at an absolute premium -- yes, I think that's the way to go.

The problem with PC-based scopes is, I think, an effect of the sales environment: it's so easy to make and sell cheap pieces of junk that a really good scope that sells for 100% (or even 20%) more won't be considered because, well, "it's too damned expensive".

Add to that the fact that if you're going to sell anything that uses a PC for a front end then you're smack in the middle of Compatibility Hell, so even if it works NOW, there's no guarantee it'll work TOMORROW.

Grab a used Tektronix 465 or 475 (maybe not working? around $50 to $100), a copy of the service manual (free or cheap), and a few good probes (up to $100). Join the Yahoo Tekscopes group and have a great place to ask questions. Spend some good throne time with the manual and learn some excellent engineering (as well as how to write a good manual). You will now have a 100 or 200 MHz analog scope that can be maintained for almost forever.

I agree that the PC based scopes leave much to be desired.

Regards

The Rigols are really nice, and easy to use. We have the low-end ones, and the monster 1 GHz box with the home-theatre-sized screen.

The 100 MHz, or even the 60, versions would be fine for most apps, if cost is a big deal.

Non-color, analog, non-storage scopes seem primitive to me now.

I have been using the Picoscope for 10 years plus now. Never had a bug or an incompability.

I have been using to notch Lecroy and Tek scopes, 20.000 USD scopes, but find myself reverting to the 1500 USD Picoscope.

One time I was debugging an UART, I would have to buy a 1000 dollar upgrade to the expensive scope to decode the data. Instead the Picoscope had it for free along with a lot if other stuff

And don't get me started on the months that passed before the expensive scope firmware was cleared of bugs. The Lecroy even does recalibration at regular short intervals, especially when you just need it not to

Regards

Klaus

The Picoscopes, with no display, cost about 5x the price of a Rigol, which has the color LCD and lots of nice knobs to grab, and doesn't need a PC on the bench.

However, you are not a beginner by any stretch.

Winfield Hill wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@drn.newsguy.com:

Age of Empires?

Please don't quote the first post in the thread.

Talk about chucking the guy in the deep end!

That can be the right answer for some people (it's more or less how Jim Williams got his start).

I'm not sure I'd really want to debug an I2C problem using my 475!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

"I'm not sure I'd really want to debug an I2C problem using my 475!"

Now that would really be a deep end. :)

Now where else would one find some excellent analog engineering like done at Tektronix? Or HP...

Blah, I wouldn't recommend 465/475 -- and only because they're *so* old nowadays, that even the best ones are practically falling apart, or have already required service. So you're asking a lot (service manual, spare parts, downtime..) to keep one in operating condition. It's a "beater"; it may be a classic Jaguar (probably a more than apt analogy, come to think of it), but it's still a beater.

I wholly agree, older Tek are excellent machines for what they are (at least, while working). I would suggest a 2232, or anything from the 2000 series really. They should be available almost as cheap as a good working

Beyond that, it's hard to argue with a Rigol DS1054Z or somewhere around there. The brand-new price is a big step up from used analog scopes, but the functionality is far better than any "vintage" DSO. And even a lowly HP 54600B doesn't go for chump change. (Speaking of chumps... stay away from TDS1000 series Teks. Those were the first of the worst DSOs ever, nearly as bad as the early Rigols. Why they still fetch a modest price, I have no idea -- just goes to show you how much money is left in a name as old as Tek's, despite their self flagellation over the last *30* years.)

As for the small, PC operated, or cutesy things out there... I don't know. There are "pocket scopes" that are little more than an MCU (built in ADC, eh?) in a "music player" style enclosure, that price $20-100, and I would dare say aren't even worth that, even to a newbie. PicoScope I believe catches a good rep, but they're also one of the more/most expensive PC operated ones; I don't know what the rest of that market looks like.

Tim

Well, maybe. I figure if someone does finally get into real designing, they'll be working with 2-3 ns logic and visualizing switching supplies with 2-5 ns difficulties. But a 5 to 10 ns scope response time may be marginally fast enough for that kind of work.

Thats a good price range for a beginner, I think my fist 20Mhz scope was $250 and thats more than 25 years ago.

Cheers

So John, how much was that add on the Photonics wesite? I had all the guys in the office click it.

Cheers

Do you mean Photonics.com?

Because you like us, or because you want to cost us by lots of bogus clicks?

Hey, this is interesting:

Hey, the DPO2024 is pretty rotten too!

I second that.

IME it takes a looong time before people design around 2-3nsec logic that is actually being run at that speed, or get into super fast FPGA with a three-digit price tag.

Most people who start out are into uC and automation at first, maybe RC or maybe the maker scene. I once suggested the small 60MHz 2-ch brother of my 200MHz 4-ch Instek scope to my client. It was in the $300-400 range. Did every job they threw at it and then some. They were blown away by what this little thing could do.

How times have changed. I did 6MHz video work with a 1MHz scope.

NT