scary video of battery fire

Anthony Watts gets paid to push climate change denial propaganda, paid for by the fossil carbon extraction industry.

They've got an obvious interest in persuading people to keep on driving gasoline-powered cars - it's an appreciable chunk of their market - which does lead them to push silly claims about how dangerous electric cars might be.

On a sunny day (Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:08:51 -0800) it happened snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

That is why I use Lifepo4 type batteries when possible:

It is video. It is fire. And, apparently, JL is scared of a fire in mid-Atlantic. But, there's no known cause of the fire.

I didn't get past the first paragraph. Quote "EV battery fires are chemically comparable to thermite fires, hot enough to melt steel, so there may not be much left to analyse by the time the ship fire finally burns itself out."

An extrapolation too far. There are quite a few reports on the internet of investigations into EV battery fires. The temperatures reached are around 1000°C, perhaps 1200°C in some cases. That's not enough to melt steel, just to soften and weaken it. Thermite reaches around 2500°C, which is not too far off the /boiling/ point of iron. The chemistry of combustion is entirely different too.

Yes and even Tesla is starting to usw LiFePo4 in some of their cars.

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..... Phil

lørdag den 19. februar 2022 kl. 04.09.02 UTC+1 skrev snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com:

I thought you weren't scared of anything?

Adiabatic flame temperature (constant pressure) of common fuels Gasoline Air 2138 °C

"Burning gasoline has a temperature above 1500° E (945° C). Therefore, it can heat objects in the fire area above its ignition temperature. To prevent reignition after extinguishment, the agent should be applied for sufficient time to allow hot objects in the fire area to cool below the ignition temperature of the gasoline."

Sounds like a very dangerous fuel to use in passenger cars you carry your children in. Good thing we are getting rid of it. We can keep it in lawnmowers where it's safe.

It has nothing to do with fires. They are cheaper and don't use Cobalt, a material that is not so easy to come by. They still use nickel-cobalt-aluminum in the long range cars because it has a higher energy density. Neither battery chemistry has a problem with fire when compared to the highly dangerous gasoline powered vehicles.

For gasoline cars, they only keep enough to drive in and out of the ship. For EV, they should use a small main battery for short distance driving and removable modules for long distance. Lithium batteries are safer with lower density.

Mid-Atlantic? Scared?

What they have in common is that both contain all the reactants, and get very hot fast, so both are hard to put out.

A lead-acid battery stores a lot of energy but they don't explode.

It's apparently not prudent to keep big lithium batteries indoors.

Google images for 'tesla fire'. Often there's not much of the car left.

(I wonder if something the people ate was the cause of the fire?)

Yeah, they have that in common with gasoline fires. A big difference is you can put out a lithium-ion battery fire by spraying water on it. Gasoline floats on water and spreads like... wildfire. You have to use special foams and such. Very hard to put out and very dangerous. Gasoline fires make lithium-ion battery fires look like no big deal in comparison. They also happen much less often, "traditional internal-combustion vehicles experience one fire for every 19 million miles traveled; for Teslas EVs, it's one fire for 205 million miles traveled." That's a factor of over 10 to 1!

We had an accident on the DC beltway with a gasoline fire that was so hot they feared it took the temper out of the bridge girders over it. Gasoline fires are so hot, they heat material above the ignition temperature of gasoline, so even when you put out the fire, it can reignite.

Noooo, gasoline fires are nothing to mess with. Very dangerous and hard to put out. That is what you were saying, right?

Very low power density per pound/kg.

I'm not, but I wouldn't like having my house or my children incinerated. But I'm interested in electrical things.

And the liquid electrolyte probably cools off small shorts until they open, before they spread.

Aluminum caps are self-healing. Tantalums detonate.

german automotive electrical systems are garbage. Surprised more of the transports don't catch on fire.