Re: engineering graduate school question

In news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com timestamped Mon, 18 Jun

I am aware of two broadly similar software engineering primary degrees from a faculty: one an evening and weekend version of the regular version. Almost everybody doing the evening and weekend version had a normal supposedly fulltime job in information technology while doing their degrees and the consequences of trying to do a degree and a job tended to be bad: inferior grades; a much higher failure rate; and many people would end up failing and repeating a year.

I myself am a Ph.D. candidate in electronic engineering and as such, attending lessons and trying to pass exams is not as major a component of the degree, but I still had to do some. Though all the lectures (and, if the assessment was based on a sat exam instead of project work after the course, the exams) were held during normal working hours, I would need to conduct my research during the remaining normal working hours so I would study for the exams during my supposedly spare time (e.g. when trying to eat dinner). This was technically doable and my grades were fairly okay but some of the grades could have been better and grades do not actually matter for this Ph.D.

Anyway, though I technically could cope for a few weeks with doing research (or a job) and attending lectures and exams and doing projects and homework for a subject without a sat exam, I realized that those people doing primary degrees while also working must have been suffering. Most people who have responded in this thread supporting working and studying seem to have tried it themselves, but I would recommend restricting activities to either chiefly working or chiefly doing a degree for any stint lasting more than a few months. I do not wish to suggest which of these options is a good one, just that mixing them together seems to be a bad idea to me. "I was a little disappointed that there were various HP employees in some of the classes I took who were there only because HP required them to get a degree to advance in title and hence salary. [..] from a corporate point of view, I'm amazed that HP condones such activities. ---Joel"

Many people attend things because they are forced to and because the people who force them to attend do not really realize how the privileges are unappreciated and misused. E.g. people who attend conferences but do nothing there except read a newspaper instead of paying attention to the presentations; people whose expenses to attend conferences actually end up being used to pay for their vacations as they do not bother to attend the presentations; and people whose employers pay them to attend C++ standardization meetings who play computer games during the meetings. I did not make up any of those examples.

Sincerely, Colin Paul Gloster

Reply to
Colin Paul Gloster
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I know someone who used to teach for the University of Phoenix on-line. She said there was a lot of pressure to dumb down the course, and she was having a hard time doing that and still making it particularly relevant. Apparently UoP did this enough that at some point they were threatened with having their accreditation yanked (for those getting degrees on-line -- I imagine their physical campus courses are fine) if they didn't stop!

In my own MSEE program, a significant number of students (including myself... ) took jobs after finishing coursework and proceeded to take a looonnnggg time (two to three years... ) to get around to finishing their theses. Part of this is funding related -- none of us were given a funded quarter to *just* work on our theses, so for most people getting a job looked awfully attractive. In retrospect it probably would be better to just bite the bullet and spend three months doing nothing but thesis work and remove the albatross around one's neck, so to speak.

I'm sure I sound quite whiney, though -- my late grandfather, who obtained his BSEE in l930-something? worked full time while going to school. He commented once that he wished he had had more time to spend on his studies, that he literally was doing nothing but working, attending classes, studying, eating and sleeping at times. His grades were fine, but not straight A's, and he claimed that they could have been if he had had that extra time for studying. Times have changed a lot, of course, and realistically someone without financial support today will be taking out student loans. At least that does give them the option of spending more time studying... if they choose to do so.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Kolstad

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Oh Wait a minute! Larwe already said the above is "utter nonsense"!

And many times people are forced to attend things because the boss is a moron. One of my bosses somehow got the idea that my writing needed improvement, so I was ordered to attend an "effective writing" class. Ok, it was free and I was positive about it. You never really know when you might pick up a useful idea or two from ANYONE you talk with.

Well, hey, remember the "moron" thing? What the boss didn't know was that I was a published author who for a time had made a living writing articles for major magazines! So I started the class and pretty soon the woman who ran the class is looking at me funny. And finally (a la Billy Joel... I'm not kidding!) says to me, "What are YOU doing here?" Heh! So I explained how I was ordered to go to the class. :) Mostly she and I sat around telling writer war stories to each other while the rest of the class pondered the mysteries of the English language. Quite frankly it was one of the best times I ever had!

Benj

Reply to
Benj

The way it was originally stated, it is nonsense. It is the exception, not the rule - and a management-dependent thing.

I had a similar experience when, in an English class, the professor said "Your writing is very good; you should write a book" - to which I replied "I just finished my third and am starting on my fourth".

Reply to
larwe

Nice story. I think it's indicative that it wasn't the technical quality of your writing that your boss didn't like, it was probably the content!

Reply to
Joel Kolstad

Maybe, but one has to ask why. I was once assigned to write a technical manual for a laboratory fermentation controller that had over a dozen option cards. I was the new guy, ans everyone else was "busy". Nobody even had the time tell me what it was supposed to do. I spent two weeks exercising it in all its configurations and writing up the results, complete with illustrations of the various screen displays. The boss -- I had been hired over his objections -- pointed out several points on which my write-up differed from the spec. I told him that I hadn't seen the spec -- he had declined to give me one -- and that my write-up conformed to the machine as built. His reply was simple: "I know what I'm talking about. I designed it myself." I responded "I know what I'm talking about. I tested it myself. Show me different if you doubt it." He couldn't.

Jerry

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Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Reply to
Jerry Avins

... snip ...

Now the critical point of the whole tale is 'How were your relations with that particular boss affected'. If they improved, kudos to all. If you had to go job-hunting, boo.

--
 
 
 
                        cbfalconer at maineline dot net
Reply to
CBFalconer

Neither, actually. He worried that I might take his job or try to, but I wouldn't have touched it. By the time he actually realized that, I had arranged to move on. I took a year off to be with my first wife in her last year. We traveled while she could, then we relaxed at home. After a breather with my sister in Texas, I got another research lab position with Siemens, from which I eventually retired for the third and last time.

Jerry

--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Reply to
Jerry Avins

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