Re: CE product ratings.

Most of the heaters in Finland have it that way - internally it's rather easy to protect with steel enclosure and then the body is grounded, too. External wired control unit adds to cost.

Might be the side surface temperature (except for the stones), as it's important for how close you can place surrounding structures.

For electrical heaters there are usually no fire resistant structures. For fireplaces they're needed. But check your local fire code.

Somebody mentioned COVID19 and sauna. We've got 3.2M saunas for 5.5M population and pretty good COVID situation so far. (And no problem implying correlation equaling causation ;-)

--
mikko

For instruments, you need to comply to IEC 1010, right?

AFAIK you cannot just reduce the effort for approval, simply because it is a test instrument

It's hard to know what standards apply. There are so many, they are expensive, and each one references a bunch more.

They should be free.

Test equipment that gets bolted into a rack gets a lot of exemptions. The EMI requirement is that it's compatible with the other gear in that rack.

What about this one?

Safety Requirements for Electrical Equipment for Measurement, Control, and Laboratory Use - Part 1: General Requirements UL Standard 61010-1, Edition 3 Edition Date: May 11, 2012 ANSI Approved: November 16, 2018 It is also available in IEC and EN versions.

John

John Walliker wrote: ===================

** There are thousand of "standards" - but only a few are compulsory by legislation.

..... Phil

I think we were talking about CE.

But our customers don't seem to care about this sort of thing.

That standard is UL, but the CE version is EN61010. In other words, you can't legally place test and measurement equipment on the European market without complying. I would be surprised if you could sell in the USA without complying. It seems to be applicable pretty much world-wide.

I picked a Keysight 34460A DMM at random and looked up its safety declaration. It states: Unless otherwise noted in the specifications, this instrument or system is intended for indoor use in an installation category II, pollution degree 2 environment per IEC61010-1 and 664 respectively. So even if it is not essential for USA sales, Keysight clearly think it is a good idea to comply with 61010.

John

Exactly. The 1010 standard I referenced came before 61010

You cannot just not care like Larkin wrote, you are required to comply to the standard. Otherwise your products can be called back from the marked

Some places 61010 seems to be even more strict than 60950 (household appliances). I do not know the reason, maybe because some test equipment are hooked up in much stranger ways than household appliances

Some background:

I believe that our product that has the CE sticker is proper, and I have the compliance file.

I suspect that many of my customers are exempt. I know that they are exempt from ROHS. Most of our stuff gets bought in the US and shipped abroad in systems.

My British colleagues laughed out loud when I mentioned CE about a joint project. "It means Can't Enforce." I think a lot of europeans ignore CE, or just slap the stickers on.

Oxford is a very nice town. Even the food is mostly OK.

I guess Brexit makes it more interesting. UK may revert to some local standards. Maybe start the next (285th?) european war.

What about the rest of your products? Don't you think you need approval for those?

All the test equipment we buy has approvals

I have never seen such anybody doing that. The penalty for non compliance can be quite high, even prison sentence

Yes, will be interesting to see if the z UK does better or worse after Brexit

--
Klaus Kragelund

** At least Brits will not have to eat any more damn Euro-sausages ...

..... Phil

If someone makes and sells a few (or even one) small custom electronic things, I can imagine that the act of really sincere CE testing would vastly multiply the cost and the selling price and the time to deliver. Does everyone actually do that? Is it a crime to not do all that certification? Is it enforced? Do buyers insist on CE certification for every little box?

Is CE testing required for things that you make and use yourself?

================

** Now that would certainly wipe out DIY electronic projects for good. If employees have to use it, or members of a household - be very wary.

EG:

I have a variable PSU on my bench that outputs up to 230VDC at over 200mA.

The outlet appears on a 3 pin male XLR as +/-115V plus 0V.

Gets uses on occasion with a special lead ending in 3 alligator clips coded red, black and green.

It bites if you are careless....

..... Phil

My reading is this: CE marking is required when "placing on the market". So one-offs or special small run items not intended for general sale do not need the mark (although need to comply with safety and other regs like emc/rfi etc).

Not sure it is a crime to not do the certification but is a crime to claim to have so when haven't. Enforcement so far has been very patchy.

Not many end-user-buyers insist on CE certification but distributors/importers/wholesalers most definitely do - which makes sense as they will be the people in the firing line.

Things for in-house use don't need CE testing until you place them on the market.

piglet

piglet wrote: ===========

** Fact:

A local transformer winder and supplier once told me the easy way to avoid all issues with safety regulations when building PSUs - particularly calss 2 types

Supply them to the customer with an attached lead and *no* plug.

..... Phil

This war might very well be on their own soil, as Scotland seems to be pretty serious about leaving the UK. Given that all the UK boomers are supposed to be based in Clyde, things start looking interesting...

Best regards, Piotr

AFAIK it is needed for all products. How will you set the limit. This guy produces 1 million products per year, he needs to comply. That other guy produces 100, oh he can do what he wants?

A link about the enforcement of CE:

Try to look through the RAPEX database, there's a lot of recalls going on

No, the difference is that it won't kill other people, just myself. I can go and step in front of a bus, no problem. But I cannot push another guy in front of the bus

There is a different. If it is a kit, you are on your own to make sure you build it correctly, and how you use it