Qs re EAGLE use

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• Cannot find..that 2-line URL resolves into something totally different. Search was not of any help. So i registered, tried to give them an image for me to no avail. not sure how to post so did not try. Took a long time to be registered .. .. activated .. .. still no go so i quit while ahead. That element 14 group is slightly better but cannot find my question.

So on the basis of what i have seen the support here is infinitely better.

• Mentioned that the (shh) secret was the RIGHT click (shh..).

• Well, only right click brings up a window menu: Add, Copy, New - but everything is greyed out so that method is useless.

• NO direct way to "issue" any command. If i right click on library name, i get a window menu Open, Rename, Copy, Delete - and the copy allows me to copy the whole library with new or same name; packages are not visible there. If i right click on a package name, i get a window menu that happens to have a useless Copy in it - but all "selections" are useless as they are greyed out.

with "GROUP", type in "CUT" and click on the area by using the the right side mouse button.

objects.

be better now on the actual version. Unfortunately, I have not tried it yet.

Cut/Paste thing on the schematic only. Save the Schematic, close the schematic. Opent the PCB, do the Cut/paste thing, save the PCB. Then open the Schematic again. Repair Vcc1 vcc2 to Vcc and so on. Only a few signals go corrupted.

implemented, as you noticed already!

at the beginning of the year. I can tell you that I encounter the same obstacles now as you do!

This is not easy to tell. IMHO, most long term users got used to the program. I found out that a manual placement can be done very fast (if one has an idea of already) by using the keyboard. Instead of getting insane by mouse-clicking, type sth. like "mov R37" and R37 hangs at the cursor. If you plan to do more work with Eagle, you can speed up things *** a lot *** by using the keyboard. Edit the eagle.rc file, and set the menu to "text". The graphical menu icons are more confusing than useful. Get used to type the beginning characters of the commands into the keyboard. Define some shortcuts for routing widths, grids, etc. to some keys,....and press "F1" a lot! The german help files are excellent!

Regards Tobias

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Great, I'm glad it's working.

George H.

Got top side done, did a copy via group,cut,paste then group,change to make that on the back side. Then moved that to co-inside with the top layout, deleted two small added vias that had been inserted on the back side copy, deleted the zero-width traces connecting to them, and i now am almost done. Those zero-width traces were my way of indicating board boundaries.

So.. Two nagging board layout questions..

• Naturally, the make new part by changing old one WITHOUT destroying original is STILL not possible for me.

Just a guess, so for whatitsworth: Something decided that it no longer needed to go "through" the board to get to the bottom, since it was already there. That does sound suspicious though, might be a "bug".

bill

I wouldn't expect any PC layout program to pay attention to the schematic layout. In Real Life, most designs will consist of several schematic sheets, so laying out components based on the schematic will be impossible (especially if parts of some ICs are scattered over several sheets.)

The netlist formats I've seen don't contain any information on the schematic layout, so the PC program (which gets its information from the netlist) won't have any information on the schematic layout to follow.

IMO, it should. The schematic is much more than a netlist. There is information in where decoupling capacitors are placed, for instance. It's not good if this information is lost. The layouter generally has to do this stuff manually but it would help if the tools helped instead of hurt.

Probably right. That's a big problem.

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Do you mean power supply decoupling caps? I tend to stick all my power supply stuff down on the bottom of the schematic.

And then have signal flow in the middle.

Though on the pcb it all has to come together.

I lay out schematic's and pcb's on paper before going to the computer. Two separate, but related tasks.

George H.

Sure.

Don't like that at all. Might just as well be on a separate page. I want to show exactly which pins the decoupling caps go on. I prefer to have all power pins on separate heterogeneous symbols and they can be on separate pages )with the appropriate caps on those pins). Schematics are supposed to convey more information than simple netlists. One way is to show some location information.

Top and center.

Obviously.

I don't do layout[*] but that's a waste of time for schematics. I'd rather have some sort of floorplainning tags for schematics, though. While I've never done layout I'm always the one responsible for it.

That's fine if you're also the PCB layout guy, but if you're handing if off to someone else for layout, it tends to save time if you stick the decoupling caps you want near a chip on the schematic near that same chip. :-)

I like Keith's idea. Most layout programs have a "spread everything around on a grid, more or less" option, but an option for "try to more-or-less match the schematic positioning" would, at times, be a great option and save time.

Mostly the same here, although I find it ironic that sometimes it's considered so "low level" that the engineer ends up having to sit down next to the layout guy and tell him exactly how to route a lot of traces or place components.

A far more efficient scenario, IMO, is when you train your engineers on the layout tools, have them do any critical sections, and then turn the bulk of the layout (the non-critical stuff) to the layout guys.

We have an approval process for new schematic parts, but the CAD guys just send a PDF of what it looks like, so there's so way to check whether they got, e.g., the pin electrical type correct (and this is a very common error in my experience). Kinda strange... but I suppose a paper trail makes doc control happy...

---Joel

Right, but that's because it is considered a lower level function. The engineer is still fully responsible for the outcome. When I do it, there is generally just a day or two of close work. In fact, my last board (reasonably complicated with some multi-phase switchers, DSP, micro, and a few radios, was done almost all by the layout guy. I was assigned their best. He *is* good. All it took me was to go through the schematic with him and highlight the problems as I saw them.

I don't think the engineers can get good enough at the tools without using them every day.

Weird. The mistake we've made many times is reversing power supply pins. Oh, the funniest one was reversing LED pins. It happened three times with one part. KingBright insists that pin-2 is the cathode. The "standard" is pin-1 (or something), so every time I generated a new LED symbol the library dude got it backwards. I fixed that by insisting that the pin numbers for LEDs be 'K' and 'A', instead of '1' and '2'. What do I find on my new job? 'A' and 'K' LED pin numbers. ;-)

Huh??? I ain't got no skee-matique.

Sir, i do not have a schematic.

^----^----------^----^----ABSOLUTELY!! So why has the Eagle "powers that be" ignored the screams for that?

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Yup, That's what I like too. A separate package for power... also inculdes the thermal pads if any.

I guess that was my (rather small and unimportant) point. If I've got my device split in two on the schematic, then where does it get plonked down on the PCB?

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Just a matter of taste. I think better with pencil and paper, than with mouse and monitor. I'm not sure I can even think properly without a pen in my hand... It=92s perhaps a =91stand in=92 for the cigarette of yesteryear. My hand wants to be occupied doing something.

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Hide quoted text - Grin, small company. I get to do high level, low level and everything in between. I enjoy doing a little layout. It's a fun puzzle getting all the bits tightly packed into some space. (almost all, very simple circuits though)

George H.

Yeah I make a separate power package for the device. A dual opamp has three pieces, amp A, amp B and then the power pins.

George H.