pullup AND pulldown on a chip input

I just looked at a schematic I pulled off the net and I noticed that the Designer has a pullup resistor (to vcc) and a pulldown resistor (to ground) on the chip input.

Exactly why is this done this way?

I am used to seeing either one or the other. pullup for normally high or pulldown for normally low

Forgive me, I am a software guy who takes an interest in such things. Thanks

Reply to
samiam
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It's called CYA... after the thing is built clip off the wrong one ;-)

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

"samiam"

What kind of chip? If it was an op-amp, then the resistors act as a voltage divider to set the input bias. Not sure why everyone here is assuming it to be a digital input. :-?

Reply to
Anthony Fremont

Good point. I've devised several chips now where one pin gives a select-one-of-three function...

Tie High = Mode A Tie Low = Mode B Float = Mode C

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

This is a "Thevenin termination". Using two resistors lets you nail both the pullup voltage and the line termination impedance at any values you like. The VME bus, among many others, uses this sort of termination.

Typical practice might be to have the high level be twice the nominal logic threshold or so, about 3 volts for VME, and the impedance whatever terminates best.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

a buffer/quickswitch

input bias. Not sure why > everyone here is assuming it to be a digital input. :-?

:) I think I am partly to blame for that. I mentioned that I am a software guy by trade. My interest in this is purely with digital circuits.

Reply to
samiam

2.2k used to be my favorite pullup resistor -- red-red-red.
Reply to
Richard Henry

There are three main reasons why pull up and pull down resistors are used that I can think of off the top of my head. They are

1) To put a pin in a default state while items power up. For example you may want a processor to bring a pin high and another pin low on start up but for a few ms while a chip initializes the outputs may be inputs or high Z and not assert this. It prevents pin contention/latch up and other issues. For example you may want an output enable pulled high (off) and a external power supply pulled down (off).

2) Stiff (under 2.21k) Pull ups are used to increase speed transitions at times. This is especially true with opto isolators and OC outputs (see below)

3) Pull ups are used for open collector outputs for the VCC reference since by nature open collector cutouts have no voltage on them.

Hawker

On 3/27/2007 2:11 PM, The digits of samiam's hands composed the following:

Reply to
Hawker

On 3/27/2007 2:37 PM, The digits of Jim Thompson's hands composed the following:

Oh I misread the request, sorry. I see on the same pin. Yes most likely that is what it is. Although it could also be termination. Was this a clock line. The two add up to make an impedance. If this is the case the values are usually odd ball and pull up and down are different values.

Also - depending on what it drives the default state they may have wanted was in the middle. Not many real world uses for this, but there are some.

Hawker

Reply to
Hawker

[Top-Post Repaired]

I used to use 2.4K routinely, since the time a bag of about 1,000 of them fell out of the sky onto my desk. ;-)

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

What are the resistor values, and what chips are on either end of the line?

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

Yep, it is a termination for bus-lines used mostly on backplanes. The signal sees the parallel resistor value at the end of the line and doesn't get reflected. Whereas the driving current is only half of what it would be with a single resistor to gnd or Vcc. It makes only sense for CMOS, since these parts can source or sink the same current. A better way would be to create a middle voltage with a switching supply and terminate all lines with a single resistor to this. Now the dissipation is much lower, since we avoid the quiescent current in the dividers. There are ICs designed for this purpose. Some things have to be observed though. When no driver is active the middle voltage might cause excessive current in an activated input being in the linear region, so you have to stay above or below a bit. This will also give a defined output in this condition, all lines are low (or high), easily recognized by software.

--
ciao Ban
Apricale, Italy
Reply to
Ban

eg MC140526 / SC41342 ?

Bye. Jasen

Reply to
jasen

Nope. The only standard product I've designed since 1970 have been ECL/PECL or LVDS. The parts with the three-way select were custom ASIC's, WiFi Repeater, GPS, etc. I've also used the scheme for production test... function not seen by ultimate user.

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

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