Is there any (preferrably free or low cost) software for Mac OSX that allows me to design electronic circuits? Just something simple and easy to use that allows me to draw component pins' holes (with the correct spacing/placement for connectors, ICs etc) and traces between them so I can finally print it out and make it into a PCB.
I much prefer a simple but limited electronic "drawing program" over something sophisticated that takes weeks to figure out and has features I won't ever need :-)
McCad?
Google is your friend?
Open source: KiCAD; gEDA Very usable demo: Cadsoft EAGLE Don't know anything about it: Osmond PCB
The more the app can do, the less you have to struggle to get what you want.
gEDA's pcb program works just fine under OS/X using the OpenMotif library (--with-gui=lesstif).
If you have gtk, the schematic capture toolset will work too.
Eagle from Cadsoft
kevin
I used VAMP years ago and it was not up to the quality level of PC software. To call it terrible is an understatement.
Thanks. Yes, Google *is* my friend, but you really have to know what to look for when doing a search ;-) I've downloaded several of the packages mentioned here although a few of them seem very Mac-unlike, needing a command-line input to install etc. Probably ported from Linux/UNIX and suited for hackers to use. I need something that is easy to install and use.
However, the following programs are now installed on my Mac and seem to work like they should:
Osmond PCB
Out of the three it looks like Epoxy is the most user-friendly one (at first glance at least), but I have to admit that I'm pretty clueless when it comes to software like this. It's quite overwhelming and I don't know where to start.
Can someone please explain the basic concept/idea/procedure regarding PCB design using this kind of software? I've previously made PCBs the "manual" method using etch-resistant pens/rub-on transfers, etched the copper-clad board, then finally drilled the holes. I've also used the UV-light method with PCB layouts taken from electronics magazines etc. So I'm not completely new to PCB design, but I am to PCB-design *software*).
So why am I looking at PCB design software? If I'm not completely mistaken the software will replace the Dalo pen and rub-on transfers allowing me to correct (expensive) mistakes, and also lets me get the correct pin placement/spacing for components such as connectors and ICs. And in the end I can print out the whole circuit diagram in 1:1 size to a transparency which is used with a UV photo-sensitive copper-clad board. Is this what I can do with this kind of software?
The various software comes with manuals, but they assume you know the concept/procedure and only explain the keyboard shortcuts, additional features of that particular program etc. Not much help for me at this stage. So it would be helpful if I could get a short explanation of how these programs are used as tools to accomplish my task. Thanks :-)
I've been using McCAD professionally since 1989. Despite its share of warts and quirks, I've found it to be the most user-friendly and complete (from a professional view) package available for the Mac.
If I were to start over today, I'd give the gEDA suite a fair chance, though. It has a steep learning curve, but it also has a lot of possibilities. And the price is right...
I've tried the "Classic" version of Epoxy, but it crashed so many times before I'd even finished a simple schematic diagram, so I gave it up.
-- http://www.flexusergroup.com/
Try out this guy's tutorial:
Yes, absolutely... or of course you can send out the artwork files to have the board professionally manufactured.
---Joel
snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote {WITHOUT CONTEXT]:
First, this is NOT Google Groups; this is USENET. You should read this before posting again: http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:SXIajvWUVHAJ:groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py=answer=12348+Tempting-though-it-is-*-*-*-*-*-*+remove-*-*-*-irrelevant+STOP+zz-zz+Summarize.what.you're.following.up+BOTTOM+qq+Usenet I am pointing specifically to the stuff highlighted at the 70% mark. . .
8-) The Steps in PCB Design -- Ken SmithThe advantage of ECAD over tape-up (with increasing PCB complexity) is that the DRC subroutine (Design Rules Check) double-checks your work making *correct once* == *always correct* when transfering to copper. The whole back-annotation thing (between schematic and layout) is also handy. . .
It can also be replicated easily numerous times
--with construction outsourced to a PCB fabrication house (who can do solder mask, silkscreen, plated-thru holes, etc.).
A $0.02 observation: If you are designing PCBs, per se, you ultimately want to be able to output standard CAM files that can be used by a PCB house. IMHO, working with drawing packages and the open-source offerings to hand is merely wasting effort that would be better spent learning how to do the basics in a real CAD package.
By this criterion, only Cadsoft EAGLE qualifies. The free demo is limited to 2 layers, 1/2 Eurocard, and one schematic sheet (but it can be a big sheet).
Er, gEDA's PCB is open source, and produces perfectly valid gerber files as output. PCB houses don't seem to have a problem using them, either, and PCB doesn't place artificial limits on board size or complexity like some proprietary offerings ("trial versions") do.
Please don't disparage "open source" en masse. If you have complaints about specific packages, fine, but lumping them all in a "broken" category does a disservice to us all.
Lewin, Assuming you're talking about Corel Draw or similar, we agree so far.
The open source apps mentioned so far are KiCAD and gEDA. Which of these do you think does not output Gerber/Excellon?
Disagree strongly with *only*.
That's 2 COPPER layers--full functionality on mask, silk, keepout, etc.
True. Cadsoft's demo is very usable for many folks. ...and if you want to sell what you produce with it, $50 will get you legit.
At this point, someone usually mentions EAGLE's counter-intuitive user interface. Having no experience with a Mac, I can't comment accurately on that but I know that Windoze users need to put aside the GUI conventions they have learned and adapt to the Cadsoft paradigm.
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:SXIajvWUVHAJ:groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py=answer=12348+Tempting-though-it-is-*-*-*-*-*-*+remove-*-*-*-irrelevant+STOP+zz-zz+Summarize.what.you're.following.up+BOTTOM+qq+Usenet
Are you referring to the following section?:
--------- When you click "Reply" under "show options" to follow up an existing article, Google Groups includes the full article in quotes, with the cursor at the top of the article. Tempting though it is to just start typing your message, please STOP and do two things first. Look at the quoted text and remove parts that are irrelevant.
---------
I don't understand what this has to do with my postings as I haven't quoted anything in this thread yet! And yes, whan I do quote I do trim it before replying. I'm also unsure what you mean by this not being a Google group but Usenet. Please explain.
I've had a look at a few more software packages now, and the open source ones may be fine, but to the average Mac user, delving into compiling, command-line installations and such is a but off-putting to say the least. I believe most Mac users (and Windows users as well of course), are spoilt by software that is as simple to install as download it, then double-click to install. All self-explanetory.
CADsoft Eagle light: a little cumbersome to install, but by following the instructions I managed to install it and give it a try. However, as JeffM mentiones, people usually mention its counter-intuitive user interface, which is what comes to mind here. It's very Mac-unlike and seems a tad user-unfriendly.
kiCAD: this one is a puzzle! I've downloaded and installed it here, but can't figure out how to run it. There's the usual myriad of folders within folders (typical UNIX/Linux style), but having found a folder named "MacOSX" I did find several icons which looked like applications, one of them being named "kicad" which I double-clicked resulting in MacOS classic starting, but then nothing! There's no information about the Mac version at the kiCAD site
gEDA: this one has me even more confused and baffled. Google led me to this page:
Actually, as long as I can get the job done I don't really care if the user-interface isn't completely "Mac like" though I do prefer the latter. At the moment however all of these programs look more or less the same to me. Equally confusing and non-intuitive, be it Mac-like looking or not.
Thanks. Actually I found it myself just before reading this posting :-) Yup, again, Google is my friend in need ;-)
Not quite understanding the basic concept of PCB creation software, but having read a little, played around with some programs etc. I believe I might start getting an idea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the basic idea?:
- a PCB design program is actually two programs (or parts) rolled into one: a) a schematic design program b) a circuit board design program
- Unlike a normal drawing program, a schematic drawing program "links" parts together with wires, so that the parts can be moved around and the connections will follow. In other words, there's some "intelligence" behind what you see, not just a picture.
- You first have to create a schematic diagram of your circuit which means placing all of your components together, and connecting them together with wires to form the finished circuit.
- Having completed the schematic (and checked to see if everything is OK) you save it as a file, then open (or transfer) that same file into the circuit-board section of the program. I'm taking a guess here, but I believe the circuit-board program understands the schematic file in such a way that it knows which components are wired together in which way, then "translates" all of this information into a real-life circuit board, with PCB traces and everything. Basically, the work involved in making a PCB is designing the schematic diagram! Correct?
If the above is correct I assume that once the PCB program (or section of the program) has "translated" the schematic, all that is left to do is move the components around to your liking (e.g. you might want the connectors on the side of the PCB etc. and possibly move the traces around in a different way, then print out the whole circuit board to a transparency which can be used to actually etch the PCB (or send the PCB file to a professional manufacturer).
So, have I understood the basic concept?
no-spam2@ lycos.com wrote:
Google Groups is only *one* way of accessing Usenet
--at this point, many will say the INFERIOR way. http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:VEjFh2CPNC4J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet+follow-Usenet-customs-and-*-rules+*-a-service-for-*-*-*-*+hide-the-fact-*-*-*-they-are-*-on-Usenet+concerns-*-*-*-*-about-the-Google-interface+zzz+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-is-now-legendary+qq-qq+Google-cannot-muster-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Usenet was around before Google, before the WorldWide Web, and before the Internet. Being accessible thru the Internet has not, however, changed the conventions of Usenet. http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:A6TIDwud-1IJ:gloria-brame.com/glory/jour3.htm+lurk+zzz+observe-*-the-*-*-style-*-*-*-*+qq-qq+adapt-your-own-*-accordingly
no-spam2@ lycos.com wrote {WITHOUT CONTEXT]:
no-spam2@ lycos.com wrote
Yup.
Think: Community. Think: Lowest-common-denominator.
That's the point. MOST people reading Usenet use a NEWSREADER and DON'T SEE WHAT YOU SEE ON GOOGLE. Indeed, the distributed nature of Usenet means that some folks may not see *some* posts AT ALL.
In all **responses** you make, put a reference that shows
1) To whom you are responding 2) Some indication of WTF he was talking about. (Often you can trim it to just a few words.)- Many newsreaders auto-insert the Message ID of the previous post; many users see that inclusion as useful.
I hadn't seen that evidence Of course with your generic username, that would be easy to forget
--even if I had seen it.
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