Patents

The prior art has to exist publicly in some manner. READ! The info is out there.

I wasn't in the research division but to my knowledge, stockholders money was never spent on perpetual motion. That doesn't say that there weren't people looking for something for nothing (but not in that sense). ;-)

Legally, you're wrong. Practically, you have to show timing and publishing does that. So does an actual product (or even notebook, though probably not enough for the courts).

Both publishing and selling a product are public. If you invent something and only note it in your notebook or otherwise keep it private (like sharing with other private parties), it does not constitute prior art at all.

Never said perpetual motion. Wasn't much detail but I got the impression is was either some kind of internal battery or fuel cell. The person who told me of the rumor was a tech specialist at IBM. He did not claim to actually have seen one, just heard mention of it. I can guarantee that he person wh o told me had no notions of perpetual motions :-)

One of the reasons I even thought of asking is because lately I am getting into fixing test equipment and am about amazed at some of the technology be ing so old. It is almost as if nothing has been invented lately, they just made it smaller so more of it can fit in the box. Around here though of cou rse we got guys building specialized RF amps n shit, where they might only make ten of them but get paid really well. And other things. But the mass m arket is different. That is like cram more into a chip and make the board s maller = make more money. Shave an ounce off the weight of the thing = make more money.

Well, Maxim has clock chips with batteries in them. Nothing special about that. Hell, Dallas had them before Maxim bought them.

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. patent office, 1899

Um... presumably, RFID is something you COULD find on the shelves at Walmart. After the antenna is attached, that's a self-powered chip.

Hah, and NOBODY is going to ever want a computer in their house. And there is really no need for more than 640 K of RAM.

I think he missed the transistor, which may have been the last invention. I believe that even back then they did discover that some light was emitted from some junctions when a current was passed. I am fairly sure they tried an open transistor and threw light at it and found out about that as well. If those two ancillary discoveries were discovered back then, the optocoupl er is only an extension of the original invention. In fact IIRC they had Cd s photocells back in the tube days.

So different variants of transistors have been made, and of course they hav e learned to put billions of them in a square inch, but what was really inv ented ?

Perhaps LASERs. Perhaps nuclear technology. Still based on extant science, but then so was the transistor. And invention is a discovery really, it see ms to be like the percentage the discoverer puts into it to determine if he qualifies as an inventor.

At least that's how it seems.

Aren't they RF powered ? There is a difference. Like the tracking chips they put in people - or actually dogs in California over a certain weight which are powered by the movement of the body or something like that. Still powered by something.

Though those RTC chips they used to use back in the old like 286 days, I guess so. Everything else seems to get power from somewhere.

You have an extremely narrow definition of "invention". Nothing can be new if it contains anything previously known? Well, I guess the transistor wasn't "new" to SBB, either. Atoms were already well known.

There are some Germanium transistor circuits that can run off the voltage from an Copper-constantan thermocouple. Peltier coolers can be run backwards to convert very small temperature differences to appreciable voltages. You can run things like an LCD calculator off the heat from your hand.

There are commercial remote sensor products now available that are powered from the parameter they are measuring.

Jon

You might manage to prove a date of invention, but that will be little consolation to you when your attorney points out to you that the other person who just patented your invention is totally immune to your challenges because your "proof of invention" was not public at the time when the other person filed their application. The laws are now different from how they used to be. Have a read of the USPTO website.

Anyway I'm not going to argue with you about it, I just wanted to make sure anyone else reading this thread doesn't get a nasty surprise one day.

Chris

Actually that is what I am working on here. I know alot of it is the functi on, almost all of it maybe in some cases, but not all. When is it which and when is it enforceable and when is it worth enforcing ?

Over the years I get the impression that it is all in what the court says w hen shit happens. And what the court says then is going to be based on how well your patent is written and on the case you present to stick it up the (_|_) of an infringer, who hopefully has deep enough pockets to collect, bu t not so deep as to outlast you in endless motions and bullshit. I mean on a scale where they might just opt to pay.

I got people I can got to for this, but when I do I would like to know as m uch as possible. Do my own legwork, instead of paying them out the ass to d o it.

But then, is anything ever going to happen to make all this necessary ? I a lmost want to say - one can only hope. If it is that important, that is a s ign of some success.

And then what if the infringer is overseas ?

Actually I do have someone to ask about that. I will, might not get a good answer but might.

Got a water powered clock in the other room. Been wanting to look up its theory of operation but been busy and lazy. Apparently when it is done with the water it is deionized, so somehow it is running off the ionization in it.

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 22:02:41 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com Gave us:

You prove again that you are beyond stupid.

It's hard to tell what you're working on. With such a narrow definition, any discussion of "newness" is pointless.

Another tautology. Since the court's job is to interpret laws, it doesn't make much sense to whine that courts decide what laws mean.

Then become a lawyer with 20 years in the field.

Is he selling here? If not, cry a river. If so, he's subject to the laws of the US (I presume the US, for this discussion).

You will never get *the* answer, until you run out of appeals.

I didn't "whine" that the courts make the decision, someone has to.

You presume correctly. The US.

This is my first (possibly) viable major market idea, if it is even viable. sometimes that has to be tested in actual practice. but it is all in place . I have the national outlet, access to an actual manufacturer overseas and design people in California, by email of course because I am not going to California. (or overseas, we got phones and computers)

Early next year I will find out what the money people think of the idea. If they like it the first thing is I will have to cobble together a prototype and stage a test. Staging a test will not be the easiest thing in the worl d but I'll get through it.

Hmmm, how do you sign an NDA online ?

Still water has very little useful energy, about all you can do is evaporate it and harness the temperature difference, (see drinking bird toy) I suspect your clock uses a thermopile to convert 'cool' into electricity, (and deionised water is probably what you're supposed to feed it (else you'll get dissolved solids building up

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 7:44:51 PM UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote :

e. sometimes that has to be tested in actual practice. but it is all in pla ce. I have the national outlet, access to an actual manufacturer overseas a nd design people in California, by email of course because I am not going t o California. (or overseas, we got phones and computers)

If they like it the first thing is I will have to cobble together a prototy pe and stage a test. Staging a test will not be the easiest thing in the wo rld but I'll get through it.

Sign it on paper, scan, send email? (or are you talking about something els e?)

Cheers

Klaus