OT: When Will the Next Nuclear Accident Happen?

torsdag den 13. maj 2021 kl. 22.42.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

so when you charge a battery and later use that battery to power something the energy is wasted?

What valves??? You mean at your sink? The purpose of the water pressure is to make the water flow with pressure from your faucet and to assure it reaches the highest buildings in the city. That's its purpose. All energy used for every task ultimately turns into heat. The energy in a space heater turns into heat. So space heaters are 0% efficient? In the case of the water tower that heat is mostly released at the tap where it is used, not in some valves in the distribution.

Whatever. You two just like to argue. You in particular love to construct an absurd argument and drag people into it. That makes you a troll.

Only if it is used to pressurize water for distribution. That energy is always wasted.

Have you noticed how Larkin likes to shift the topic of a thread he doesn't like? He's doing such a good job of playing the idiot that the original thread is lost.

You're talking to yourself now. Not a good sign. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

If you use it by connecting it to a resistor, whether it's wasted depends on whether you want the heat or not. For a flashlight, no, it's not wasted, because the whole point is making light. (You could use a LED instead of an incandescent bulb and get more light overall.)

However, it's a false analogy in the water distribution case, because nobody cares about heating up the tap water by 0.5 C.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Of course they care. That heating is part of the process of moving the water. So it's not the water tower you think is inefficient. That energy is nearly all returned. It's the efficiency of the faucet in your home that you are complaining about?

I'm glad we worked that out finally. Why didn't you say that in the first place. Faucets are 0% efficient. I acknowledge that.

so the energy needed to pump the water is not wasted because the point is moving the water, the water tower is just a battery that stores mechanical energy

the purpose is moving the water

The point at issue isn't whether the energy is used doing something useful. Collins was claiming very loudly that that was 100% energy _recovery_, which it clearly is not.

In principle, a turbine attached to your faucet could recover the energy used in pumping, less friction losses of course. (There's obviously loss in the pressure-reducing valves that prevent the hoses on your dishwasher from exploding, but in principle the pressure reduction could be done with a turbine as well.)

If the faucet is 'recovering' that energy, then there's no difference between his regenerative brakes and my regular ones.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

As I have explained very clearly the ***water tower*** has nearly 100% energy recovery by propelling the water out of the water tank under high pressure. Your argument that the faucet is part of the water tower is absurd and you know that. So why not just stop arguing an absurd point?

You and Larkin both seem to love arguing no matter how minuscule the point.

It's fun so say simple, fundamental things that a few people will instantly dispute without thinking.

But why are water towers elevated? To ensure pressure if electric power fails?

San Francisco has giant cisterns, usually in high places, for gravity feed to hydrants, installed after the big 1906 earthquake and fire. Not towers. Some are under street intersections.

One hydrant near here was the only one working in the neighborhood and saved a lot of houses. Once a year people gather and re-paint it gold.

Yup. Also to maintain pressure at periods of high demand, such as a four-alarm fire. The pumps only have to manage the average demand.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

You can see examples of pumped storage in every city and town. Just look at

Way to move the goal posts, guy. If you look at the text you yourself quoted, it says in part,

(RC)

(JL)

(RC)

(JL)

(JL--note well)

(RC)

It was JL, not you, who pointed out that the faucets and valves turn the potential energy into heat.

A minute ago you claimed to be relieved that you and I "finally agreed" on that point, yet only a short time before, you claimed that such a view was either 'short sighted or just willfully ignorant'.

Seems like there a cartoon character back in the day that did things of that sort...

Rickochet Rabbit or something like that. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Your reading comprehension is woefully poor. The energy is recovered by letting the pressure of the water tank push the water through the distribution system including pipes and faucets. The water tank is highly efficient. If the water in the tank never did anything useful it would be wasted indeed.

I don't know why you can't comprehend such a simple concept. Maybe your brain is just too big and such a simple thing gets lost in there.

Keep flailing, guy, don't give up, the last reader will lose interest at some point....

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

You are a trip. So different from Larkin, but in the end, not so much. Cut from the same cloth really. The cloth of the inability to think clearly.

Household water pressure is typically 50 PSI. A typical water tower is

So a water tower could almost be simply tee connected at ground level near the pump without a valve, but that's probably not how it's done.

Moving something horizontally takes no energy.

Moving water does, because of viscous losses and especially valve losses.

fredag den 14. maj 2021 kl. 01.35.18 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

only if it has zero mass and or you don't have to accelerate it

like everything else in the real world