OT Severance agreement, NDA, per diem pay?

?. It would

it is not really a severance payment, it's a notice and you can be told to work the whole period. If the employer chose to free you from you notice you are free to get new job, you will still get 3 months pay but for the additional months the employer is only required to make up any reduction in pay

d:

ation?. It would be a great help to TeachSpin if you would agree to spend 1-3 days at the factory showing 'people there'(names removed by me), the things you used to do, such as building, testing, where things are sto red, how to read your data books, etc. For this work you would receive your full pay on a per diem basis. I believe we could cover everything in three days or less. As I said, this would be received with sincere thanks from a ll of us."

for

y home

work

his *before* you take the job. However, it can't stop you from working for a competitor, it simply limits you from working in an area that would util ize specific, competitive knowledge in a way that is likely to involve trad e secrets.

It effectively does. Not many marketing managers or vice-president of sales are going to take a position stuffing boxes or mowing the lawn. And an agreement can ban them from taking a corresponding position, ie the one that they actually want and are qualified for.

iving in a non-disclosure agreement. They can only protect their trade sec ret information, so as long as you aren't in a job where that particular in fo would have an impact on the product, they can't stop you.

n-compete to prevent employment at all in the same field.

revent the person from being employable at all. I don't see where the requ ested non-disclosure would be that onerous. Still, I would never sign such a document (or any other) on leaving a company.

agreement that can take away your right to earn a living in the profession in which you are skilled. You just can't be in a job where your knowledge of trade secret info would be a factor.

More BS. The courts have enforced many of these agreements. No one said such an agreement can take away your right to earn a living in your profession. What we're talking about is an agreement that bars you from working for a COMPETITOR for a specific period of time. And many such agreements have been upheld by courts throughout the US. Just because some were too broad and were ruled invalid, or some parts were ruled invalid, while the rest was left standing, does not mean that they are all invalid, that you have nothing to worry about, that you can ignore such an agreement. As I pointed out, if you're a design engineer working on a product line at company A and have such an agreement, it's likely that it would be upheld if you went to a direct competitor. As it would if you were a marketing manager or salesman. In those situations you have knowledge of things like product roadmaps, strategic direction, customer relationship s, pricing, costs, etc. It would be virtually impossible for a marketing manager at company A to go to a competitor and not have what he knows enter into his thinking and decisions.

And it's the fact that there are all these factors and considerations that come into play that means typically these cases have to be heard, a court isn't going to just dismiss it. If you chose to ignore an agreement, that's what you could face at a minimum, the company suing you to enforce it and many are ultimately upheld, no matter what you claim. So, how lucky do you feel and how much money are you prepared to pay to defend it? That is very real.

e you in the ass at sometime, somewhere, somehow in a way that you never sa w coming. Even if it doesn't, you would need to keep that agreement on han d and review it with every job you consider for the rest of your life.

Obviously you're clueless, because an enforceable agreement would rarely be in effect for life. Typically they are for a year or two. Another strawman detected and rejected.

Not worth the relatively small compensation for a few days work.

Probably not, but you were commenting on the general case of all such agreements.

e:

old:

eration?. It would be a great help to TeachSpin if you would agree to spend 1-3 days at the factory showing 'people there'(names removed by me ), the things you used to do, such as building, testing, where things are s tored, how to read your data books, etc. For this work you would receive yo ur full pay on a per diem basis. I believe we could cover everything in thr ee days or less. As I said, this would be received with sincere thanks from all of us."

h for

tay home

to work

this *before* you take the job. However, it can't stop you from working f or a competitor, it simply limits you from working in an area that would ut ilize specific, competitive knowledge in a way that is likely to involve tr ade secrets.

es

It's clear you don't really want to discuss this or you wouldn't make up ab surd examples like "stuffing boxes". You can work in your field as an engi neer, even for a direct competitor, just in another area that doesn't utili ze trade secrets from your previous employer. I'm not going to dig out the case I read about many years ago because it was in EE Times, print edition when they were 100 pages long (or was it 50ish, I forget). The guy was wo rking I think for a disk drive maker on the head movement electronics and e nded up working on some other aspect of disk drive electronics which didn't involve the previous work. Courts agreed with him and his new employer.

me.

job

living in a non-disclosure agreement. They can only protect their trade s ecret information, so as long as you aren't in a job where that particular info would have an impact on the product, they can't stop you.

non-compete to prevent employment at all in the same field.

prevent the person from being employable at all. I don't see where the re quested non-disclosure would be that onerous. Still, I would never sign su ch a document (or any other) on leaving a company.

en agreement that can take away your right to earn a living in the professi on in which you are skilled. You just can't be in a job where your knowled ge of trade secret info would be a factor.

I never said any of that. Go back and read what I wrote and you will perha ps understand better.

As I have said, it depends much more on the specifics of the job, not just that you are working for a competitor. Believe what you wish.

ips,

That is true if the two jobs involved selling directly competing products. However, typically in a sales job they don't even try to prevent you from selling competing products. They just prevent you from taking your custome rs with you. If at the end of your first year you now have 50% of the cust omers you had with the previous employer your new company will likely be su ed. Yeah, targeted pirating customers is a thing in the law.

But this has nothing to do with engineers and trade secrets which is what I was talking about.

Again, you seem to not have read what I wrote.

ite you in the ass at sometime, somewhere, somehow in a way that you never saw coming. Even if it doesn't, you would need to keep that agreement on h and and review it with every job you consider for the rest of your life.

Sorry, trade secrets have no time limit. .

So finally, we find we are in agreement. Hurrah!

All the DoD stuff, especially the so-called position descriptions, are tota l horseshit. They keep that crap on file for the occasional Pentagon audit and job advertisements, but that's where it ends. All they're looking for i s a body they can bill the government for $250k annual. Depending on the se ctor, all you'll ever be required to do is breathe. If you don't mind inter acting with a bunch of freak, dull, boring and near lifeless civil servants , who are good for nothing and ignorant as hell, go for it.

Hire a coach to make you into a "flash & dazzle" high energy speaker.

tal horseshit. They keep that crap on file for the occasional Pentagon audi t and job advertisements, but that's where it ends. All they're looking for is a body they can bill the government for $250k annual. Depending on the sector, all you'll ever be required to do is breathe. If you don't mind int eracting with a bunch of freak, dull, boring and near lifeless civil servan ts, who are good for nothing and ignorant as hell, go for it.

I think this is a bit overstated, but not entirely incorrect and as stated, depends entirely on the position. I've had contractor jobs where you were actively discouraged from doing too much because the people you were worki ng for were not able to understand what you were doing (or trying to do) an d the job was mostly about maintaining your job. At the same time some of those contractor jobs can be in areas where you are working with people mak ing important decisions that would impact the safety of everyone in the US.

Tossing everyone in a single bag and drowning them in a river is not recomm ended.

Lol, that's actually a real possibility. Or if you think you have enough m oxie and creative inspiration you could make a run at a YouTube career. Th ere's gold in them thar hills!

Are they legally enforceable in the USA then? Or does it really just rely on the corporates having much deeper pockets than mere mortals.

Even in the USA wouldn't a company that wanted a senior executive badly enough indemnify them from any action their former employer might take against them for jumping ship (assume headhunted for a competitor).

That is pretty much how they fail in Europe. There are a limited number of decent jobs for very senior technical experts in their field. I think EU judgement normally hinges on the human right to earn a living.

pin if you

afaiu the rule here is that for a up to 6 month anti compete clause old employer has to pay you 40% of the normal pay during the period. a 6-12 month 60% pay

pin if you

Yes, provided they are well written and not overly restrictive. You certainly can enforce a disk drive engineer from going to a competitor into a position where they design or have anything to do with disk drives. You likely won't prevail if you are a restaurant and try to block a hamburg er flipper from going to any restaurant in the state.

Or does it really just

Well, that's what I tied to explain to Rick. How lucky do you feel? If you're a marketing manager for disk drives at company A and want to take a position at B, marketing disk products, how lucky do you feel? Or if it's a position at a competitor that sells Flash storage products, how lucky do you feel? Company A could sue, now you have a case to defend. Maybe if you're really hot, the new company will pay the cost. Otherwise, you're on your own. Rick says no problemo, it's just about 'trade secrets". It's not just trade secrets and it's up to a court to look at the whole mess and figure it out.

Sure, if you're senior enough and they really want you. But for the typical engineer? Not likely.

That;s a factor here, which is why if you try to be overly restrictive in an agreement, it can fail. Then the courts might throw it all out, but more likely they would modify it to a more reasonable restriction. Whether that more reasonable restriction covers the new job you just took, who knows. Me, I'd just steer well clear of any potential conflict and if there is any question, I'd want what you just said, that the new company would eat the costs of any litigation.

ote:

erold:

ideration?. It would be a great help to TeachSpin if you would agre e to spend 1-3 days at the factory showing 'people there'(names removed by me), the things you used to do, such as building, testing, where things are stored, how to read your data books, etc. For this work you would receive your full pay on a per diem basis. I believe we could cover everything in t hree days or less. As I said, this would be received with sincere thanks fr om all of us."

d?

nth for

stay home

d to work

ke this *before* you take the job. However, it can't stop you from working for a competitor, it simply limits you from working in an area that would utilize specific, competitive knowledge in a way that is likely to involve trade secrets.

ales

absurd examples like "stuffing boxes". You can work in your field as an en gineer, even for a direct competitor, just in another area that doesn't uti lize trade secrets from your previous employer.

Go ahead, try that. And when your previous employer sues you? Now what? You seem to think trade secrets is very limited, it's not. It can include customer base, product roadmaps, suppliers, costs, prices, strategies. IT's pretty damn hard to go from company A to a direct competitor in a similar role and not have that impact you. And that is where you're most valuable, most likely to get another job at a good salary. So, you think it doesn't matter, your previous employer sues you. Now what? According to you, these agreements are just worthless, summarily rejected by courts. That's not the typical case. It's because a court has to determine who is and who isn't a competitor, what position would involve a legitimate denial per the agreement that means they have to be LITIGATED. That takes a lot of money and time. Are you prepared to pay for that?

I'm not going to dig out the case I read about many years ago because it w as in EE Times, print edition when they were 100 pages long (or was it 50is h, I forget). The guy was working I think for a disk drive maker on the he ad movement electronics and ended up working on some other aspect of disk d rive electronics which didn't involve the previous work. Courts agreed wit h him and his new employer.

Typical, found one case, that forms the basis of all knowledge, so all such agreements, in all states with different laws, are all null and void. And you can't even cite the actual case.

time.

a job

he

a living in a non-disclosure agreement. They can only protect their trade secret information, so as long as you aren't in a job where that particula r info would have an impact on the product, they can't stop you.

e non-compete to prevent employment at all in the same field.

le.

ly prevent the person from being employable at all. I don't see where the requested non-disclosure would be that onerous. Still, I would never sign such a document (or any other) on leaving a company.

tten agreement that can take away your right to earn a living in the profes sion in which you are skilled. You just can't be in a job where your knowl edge of trade secret info would be a factor.

haps understand better.

t that you are working for a competitor. Believe what you wish.

Good grief, I said that if you want to take a job stuffing boxes instead of doing sales, marketing and design for a competitor, then that's a example where you would prevail. But if you think you're going from a marketing manager position for disk drives to a marketing manager at another disk drive company, good luck with that. And that's where you would typically find a job, not as a marketing manager in their division that makes outboard engines. Take a job there, then it's likely no problem.

ships,

. However, typically in a sales job they don't even try to prevent you fro m selling competing products.

That's wrong too.

They just prevent you from taking your customers with you. If at the end of your first year you now have 50% of the customers you had with the previ ous employer your new company will likely be sued. Yeah, targeted pirating customers is a thing in the law.

I was talking about.

Funny i thought we were talking about agreements that bared engineers from working for a competitor.

hat

rt

ce

I read what you wrote, it's just so much of it is wrong.

bite you in the ass at sometime, somewhere, somehow in a way that you neve r saw coming. Even if it doesn't, you would need to keep that agreement on hand and review it with every job you consider for the rest of your life.

Now you're really getting stupid and putting up total strawmen. A typical non-compete agreement does not bar one for LIFE. They typically extend for a year or two, precisely because a lifetime ban would be stupid. But feel free to wander in the wilderness.

You make much money from all that Tesla spamming?