OT: Making bigger wind-turbines 5.6MW now, 12MW soon.

W shortly, and 12MW isn't much further away.

ut thinks that it is some way off.

and maintain. Ocean environments are the harshest in the world. .

ould-solve

e been uncooperative about this, they're going to be reduced the hard way.

use the words "Wind power" with them. Same with the issues of wind power, but you used the name 'Nuclear".

ever seen. They talk about using nuclear for desalinization because nuclea r produces energy. Duh! So does every other type of electrical generation . It even talks about producing hydrogen for autos even though we have no hydrogen cars, no hydrogen infrastructure and no proposed plans for putting any of this in place. I believe the hydrogen future is safely in the past .

You're completely out of touch. The applications listed on the DoE page are there because 1) these are critically important applications requiring lot s of energy, and 2) DoE has invested billions into R&D transitioning all of these tasks into mature technologies.

Hydrogen powered transportation, automotive and rail, is well developed wor ldwide, no research required. Laying down some refilling stations is not a big deal for the U.S. It's something that can nearly be done overnight. Hyd rogen power has a presence on the west coast powering fleet vehicles.

We are having large-area week-long blackouts in northern California now, basically PG&E teaching the politicians and customers a lesson on the value of electricity. And the value of forest management.

At 100% renewable, mostly from wind and solar, there will be blackouts. People here are buying gasoline-powered generators to keep their beer cold and to charge their Teslas.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

UK is used to paying exorbitant prices for everything, they run 20 cents per kWH.

Germany is ridiculous.

They're going to look puuuuretty stupid when small modular reactor (SMR) technology is finally accepted. SMRs don't cost billions and take decades to construct.

We used to drive from New Orleans to Destin for vacation breaks. Gorgeous dunes, warm water, and sugar-sand beaches, hardly anyone else there. We'd never make a reservation, just drive up to some motel across the highway from the beach. It was cheap.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

W shortly, and 12MW isn't much further away.

ut thinks that it is some way off.

and maintain. Ocean environments are the harshest in the world. .

ould-solve

e been uncooperative about this, they're going to be reduced the hard way.

use the words "Wind power" with them. Same with the issues of wind power, but you used the name 'Nuclear".

ever seen. They talk about using nuclear for desalinization because nuclea r produces energy. Duh! So does every other type of electrical generation . It even talks about producing hydrogen for autos even though we have no hydrogen cars, no hydrogen infrastructure and no proposed plans for putting any of this in place. I believe the hydrogen future is safely in the past .

In the immediate future, it's worth noting that hydrogen fuel cells are poi sed to be the backup storage energy technology of choice for all the interm ittent renewables. This stuff with massive batteries made out of conflict m inerals is idiotic. Same goes for all this other junk with hydro reservoirs .

: 0MW shortly, and 12MW isn't much further away.

but thinks that it is some way off.

l and maintain. Ocean environments are the harshest in the world. .

-could-solve

ave been uncooperative about this, they're going to be reduced the hard way .

ut use the words "Wind power" with them. Same with the issues of wind powe r, but you used the name 'Nuclear".

e ever seen. They talk about using nuclear for desalinization because nucl ear produces energy. Duh! So does every other type of electrical generati on. It even talks about producing hydrogen for autos even though we have n o hydrogen cars, no hydrogen infrastructure and no proposed plans for putti ng any of this in place. I believe the hydrogen future is safely in the pa st.

re there because 1) these are critically important applications requiring l ots of energy, and 2) DoE has invested billions into R&D transitioning all of these tasks into mature technologies.

orldwide, no research required. Laying down some refilling stations is not a big deal for the U.S. It's something that can nearly be done overnight. H ydrogen power has a presence on the west coast powering fleet vehicles.

The guy with no fingers is telling me I'm out of touch!!!?

He also says it is a simple matter to build a hydrogen infrastructure "near ly" overnight! LOL I guess that's true in that it wouldn't need to actual ly provide much hydrogen since there are so few hydrogen powered cars.

None of that bs is important since the single biggest drawback of nuclear i s the overly high construction costs and the cost and schedule uncertainty. No one builds plants costing $20 unless they are very, very certain they will make a profit and they will be built in a known time frame. Every nuc lear construction project in the US and every one I've read about in the EU are massively overrun and years behind schedule. Even when they project t o be done within a year they have more schedule delays and billions more ad ded to the costs. It's a bit like Zeno's paradox. Before they finish they have to reach the halfway point, then they must be within 1/4 of finishing , then 1/8,...

Nuclear just plain costs too much in the face of ever lowering costs of ren ewables.

--

  Rick C. 

  -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
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I think it is more a lesson about living in California where people can't get their shit together.

--

  Rick C. 

  -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

That's exactly what I pay in Stoneham, MA.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

te:

10MW shortly, and 12MW isn't much further away.

e, but thinks that it is some way off.

.

all and maintain. Ocean environments are the harshest in the world. .

ar-could-solve

have been uncooperative about this, they're going to be reduced the hard w ay.

but use the words "Wind power" with them. Same with the issues of wind po wer, but you used the name 'Nuclear".

've ever seen. They talk about using nuclear for desalinization because nu clear produces energy. Duh! So does every other type of electrical genera tion. It even talks about producing hydrogen for autos even though we have no hydrogen cars, no hydrogen infrastructure and no proposed plans for put ting any of this in place. I believe the hydrogen future is safely in the past.

are there because 1) these are critically important applications requiring lots of energy, and 2) DoE has invested billions into R&D transitioning al l of these tasks into mature technologies.

worldwide, no research required. Laying down some refilling stations is no t a big deal for the U.S. It's something that can nearly be done overnight. Hydrogen power has a presence on the west coast powering fleet vehicles.

44

arly" overnight! LOL I guess that's true in that it wouldn't need to actu ally provide much hydrogen since there are so few hydrogen powered cars.

is the overly high construction costs and the cost and schedule uncertaint y. No one builds plants costing $20 unless they are very, very certain the y will make a profit and they will be built in a known time frame. Every n uclear construction project in the US and every one I've read about in the EU are massively overrun and years behind schedule. Even when they project to be done within a year they have more schedule delays and billions more added to the costs. It's a bit like Zeno's paradox. Before they finish th ey have to reach the halfway point, then they must be within 1/4 of finishi ng, then 1/8,...

enewables.

You've been brainwashed into oblivion. Do you know you need $3000.00 worth of solar panels installed to power your average coffee maker! And you say n uclear costs too much?

Hmm, that'd get you six 300-watt panels installed. Using my own roof measurements, they'd make 2300 kWh a year. Is that what it takes to run a coffee maker?

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

Above a few hundred meters, the wind speed and direction is quite constant. Look at aviation forecasts for 1000FT and 2000Ft. compare these with surface forecasts.

While at higher altitudes, the wind speed is quite constant, the surface roughness will cause turbulence closer to the surface. In a grassy field he air speed at the grass root level is practically zero. The air speed varies with altitude.

Above more or less flat sea surface, the air speed starts to drop below 100-200 m. However, above rough terrain, the turbulent air may start below 700 m (2000 ft).

The absolute altitude doesn't matter, only the surface roughness (sea, grass field, forest, city) will effect how badly turbulence is experienced at different altitudes.

Why not put a horizontal bar on top of a sufficiently high tower (300-700 m) and put two rotors at the end of the horizontal bar. Perhaps even an H-bar with four rotors. Swing the bar against the wind.

This becomes an issue, if you have to put turbines behind each other. As long as you only use a single row of turbines perpendicular against prevailed wind, this is not so much an issue.

However, if there is a stronger winds higher up, this will compensate for this.

Compare the wind speed forecasts for 1000FT and 2000Ft and check how much more power is available.

LOL- I was going by the quoted cost of home solar at $3/Watt installed and any kind of coffee maker drawing 1000W, but only for a few minutes. That's $3000 worth of panels without some kind of storage which is not cheap either.

That's well above average in the US. Are you getting juice from a nuke plant? I see why you have solar.

Have you looked into time of use billing? Here it cuts the cost of a kWh by a third. Generation is cut in half but distribution is the same.

--

  Rick C. 

  +-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

He's talking about power, not energy. So you would need to have up to 1500 watts according to Keurig. Oddly enough they say their unit uses 60 watts even when not brewing or keeping anything warm. That's one power hungry clock!

--

  Rick C. 

  +-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  +-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Arab oil embargo proves oil-power uncertainty, Russia controls natural gas in Europe, and is an uncertainty to be dealt with, and 'schedule uncertainty' can be dealt with on a political level, if you care to do so. There's NEVER been certainty, except for death and taxes.

The press coverage suggests that, certainly. Or, it doesn't cover the issue at all.

'ever lowering costs' suggests you will extrapolate to infinity? Why not postulate the same for nuclear, that's NOT realistic.

MW shortly, and 12MW isn't much further away.

but thinks that it is some way off.

re root of the power? That means 100 MW turbines would need to be over fou r times taller than a 5.6 MW turbine. I found info on a 3.4 MW unit that i s 809 feet tall (246 m). So we would be looking at a tower that would be s omething approaching a mile in height to collect 100 MW? I suppose the swe pt area could be less by finding more wind which I expect added height woul d do. So maybe half a mile tall? I have no concept of what that would imp ly in terms of visual impact or other problems.

ectionable. I'm pretty sure even at half a mile tall such a windmill would need to appear on maps for airplanes. It wouldn't just be a tower since t he blades would be sweeping nearly a half a mile wide at the quarter mile h eight.

s even lower, near airports. (Original call of WIYE) WACX-TV was denied 13

0 feet AAT at their original site, near Leesburg, Florida. Their new transm itter site had a 1700 foot tower that would never stand the wind loading fo r a windmill cost over $1,000,000 to build in the mid '80s.

ing a 12MW windmill at that height. Don't forget the additional physical st rength requirements for hurricane winds, or tornadoes.

ce Base.

When was this? I built a TV station (WMRX, Ch 58) in Destin almost 30 years ago. It was so crowded that it wasn't funny, and large areas of beach were off limits. They were either military property, or closed to protect the s ea grass Ft. Walton Beach, and Sandestin were both tourist traps, and over priced. Anything along Highway 98 was expensive. It was so expensive that I lived in a camper, inside the TV station building while I installed and se t up the transmitter.

Late 60s, when I was in college.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

There is such fear of radiation that 5G is hard to sell. Neighborhood nukes are impossible.

Natural gas is great clean fuel, and people keep finding more.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

Wind turbines and solar power are both intermittent power sources.

The answer to that is battery and pumped storage.

Geographical diversity and and an extended grid can help with wind power - the UK isn't big enough for this to work, but it has links to France, Ireland and the Netherlands and there's a new one under construction to Norway.

The back-up power plant already exists - even coal-fired power stations break-down from time to time and big fast-start gas turbines don't cost all that much to sustain in a ready-to-go state.

The existence of the kind of infrequently used back-up capacity makes a lot of difference to amount of stored power you need - a recent MIT study went into that.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney