Idiot Power...
...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at
Maybe the retarded f*ck should go marry Kaczynski.
Do they have some numbers and professional economic analysis to back those numbers up....somewhere?
Otherwise, cool story, bro...
Unrefined scrap steel is what, 80 bucks per ton? Let the Chinese build them out of crushed 1997 Camrys and sell them to us. Burn their coal doing it, they're apparently going to burn it all anyway one way or another. IDGAF.
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Not to mention...
Apparently they have diesel engines to turn the thing when the wind doesn't blow, hence the need for fuel on board.
I wouldn't trust any politically-motivated "science" on global warming, from either side.
The oil companies are doing a tobacco-company style assault on science, the liberals get all starry-eyed at the mention of "renewable energy", and the truth is shivering in a cave someplace, making a thin living off of bitter roots and boiled rats.
I would fact check every assertion:
-- www.wescottdesign.com
That's probably not true. Calculated energy payback times for wind turbines tend to be around 6 months, which I assume are optimistic by a factor of four or so, but that's still just a couple of years.
Wind turbines are stupid, but that cartoon is stupid too.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
The only plus side I can see in this climate change fiasco is that those ignorati who believe in it will be the ones most likely to feel the pain of the costs >:-} ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
A more accurate calculation, and possibly a more relevent fact for the average Joe, is that more fossil fuel goes into a domestic automobile' manufacture than it will ever burn in it's expected life on the road.
RL
Not so sure about that.
170 tonnes of coal is good for 5.5TJ. If the windmill delivers its 2MW full time, it would deliver that in just a month. Of course, this doesn't even begin to look like a serious analysis, but it illustrates that it's not as clear-cut as Mr. Homer-Dixon wants us to believe.Jeroen Belleman
I think we get a positive energy balance out of aircraft carriers. Like if you build and man a Gerald R. Ford class carrier, it costs about $26 billion. But, if it can be used bring democracy to a 3rd world dictatorship, the citizens will be very happy and give us oil and minerals for a very good price (if we give them something to do so they don't get bored and uppity like sewing t-shirts or mining tantalum for
30 cents/hr).
It's mostly baloney: but lets try a little logic anyway. If true, that means that the wind power machinery companies are selling wind turbines at a loss. If it costs so much to mine, smelt, and fabricate the various parts, the component and structural part vendors would certainly have included those costs in the cost of sales, which are eventually passed on to the wind turbine operating company. Since the operating company is also interested in making a profit, it certainly would not purchase a machine that costs more than it could produce in profits. Since no company can operate at a loss forever and I see no epidemic of financial defaults among wind turbine producers, I might conclude that the conclusions of the Secret Society of Anti-AGW-ACC Cultism are inaccurate:
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
A local 600 kW wind turbine has produced a total 15.63 TJ in 4 years which means an average output of 124 kW - apparently a typical 'usage factor' for wind turbines in this area. It's associated with a manufacturing facility so it's run at low output at night and on weekends.
At current electric rates in this area, this works out to about $710,000. I believe I heard that the installed cost was a little over $1 million. As investments go, this is a reasonable rate of return.
And, 550 tonnes of coal weren't burned and 3100 tonnes of CO2 weren't produced.
I don't believe there are any subsidies involved beyond a tax break from the state to encourage this kind of investment.
-- Grizzly H.
That's not deep enough, actually; the service life of the windmill might be the time til it needs a mechanical rebuild, not the time at which the massive pylon is scrapped (you'd just put another head on it). There's no economic reason energy payback has to be over 1 before the spinning gets erratic.
The whole argument is based on treating a megawatt power plant like a too-cheap-to-fix consumer gadget, that either works or is thrown away. The numbers in the argument MIGHT check out, but it isn't a complete enough set of numbers from which to draw a conclusion.
The life in the field of a vertical steel post is missing; the fact that the Eiffel Tower was only intended for a year or two of service, and has held up well since 1889, might be suggestive.
The turning gear would be powered off the grid when there isn't enough wind to exploit. Only when the grid has gone down would they crank up the Diesel backup for this purpose. They may also need the Diesel backup for cold- start of their local grid under that off-line condition.
The turning gear is a pretty small motor that turns the big rotors at something like 1/10 RPM to prevent the fiberglass blades from developing a permanent warp.
Jon
I don't know abot America but here windfarms are primarily government payme nt harvesting schemes, without these payments there isn't much interest in building them. Small wind gens are generally attached to businesses to conv ince green customers they're doing their bit. So they're lossmakers with po litical incentives. B&Q were selling domestic wind gens at one point, the p ayback turned out to be never.
NT
I have come to accept that Jim Thompson and John Larkin could be standing on their porches up to their knees in seawater and deny global warming with full belief.
Similarly, Ralph Nader and whoever is coming after him will be so blinded by the word 'green' that they'll happily get 100% behind anything that calls itself so.
Somewhere under a pile of dead armadillos, the proper path lurks, marked by a yellow striped line.
And yes, assuming that the pylon can be reused one should take it into account. At least, one should consider that it will be remelted, not thrown into a landfill so that virgin ore can be mined.
-- www.wescottdesign.com
On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 15:41:58 -0600, Tim Wescott wrote: [snip]
Fat chance of that happening in Arizona.
But global warming is a scam. Google on "climate change" and "follow the money". You'll find the biggest spenders are not the oil companies. How come Al Gore is so rich ?>:-}
OK with you if we build a windmill farm in your neighborhood? Ted Kennedy was all for them... in YOUR neighborhood, NOT HIS. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
The worst of a bad family, probably because he lived the longest.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Years ago on Washington Week they discussed the book "The Dark Side of Camelot." Doris Kearns Goodman actually said, "People shouldn't talk about these things." Censorship to protect the reputation of an unbelievably incompetent president. Amazing.
Yup, that calculus worked great in Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq...
Did we win Grenada? Yeah. I guess we won Grenada. So there's one data point, at least.
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