before.
For testing purposes, use a car battery and some jump leads.
-- Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff
before.
If you can't test the spark plug firing under 13atm pressure, try a new plug. check the timing, check compression.
On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:13:49 +0100) it happened "petrus bitbyter" wrote in :
Check you email for link.
yter"
hy
and
't
fouled plug???
you may have spark externally but you can't chek the spark inside, the cyl. pull the plug and dry it and re-test..
Mark
//
Manual should say. Most thyristor sets use an electronic timing advance. The other choice is a centrifugal flyweight that shifts the trigger magnet relative to the flywheel as speed increases.
They sell a kind of emergency ignition system that fires the plug at about 4,000 times a second and that will sub the system, so something like a "model T" vibrator coil might sub it and allow it to start as a troubleshooting technique. I had a DC/DC converter HV CDI ignition on my BMW motorcycle that failed in a way that caused the plug to fire rapidly. The engine ran more or less normally but overheated and sputtered now and then, but it was drivable in that condition.
Possibly, not necessarily likely. A warm engine will tolerate more out of spec conditions than a cold one unless it is out of spec when warm only. The fuel could have some contaminate that was in the tank and not in the float bowl allowing it to start the first time and warm normally. Like something introduced into the fuel deliberately by someone else . . .
glass,
turned it over,
Fuel level is critical to correct mixture. A dribbling needle (float) valve may seat some of the time and not others. Too high a fuel level is too rich even if it can't spill over into the cylinder. AND how it sits when parked can influence that.
Is it 140 PSI or 85 PSI? Your leg may not be able to differentiate.
thing.
HV cable, as that
Not necessarily. A valve closing a smidgen too late will cause a puff of gas back into the carb disturbing the even flow.
Yes, go with your gut and what the symptoms tell you. If it doesn't pan out, you still need to keep an open mind and treat it like its the first time you looked at it.
Ozone - More is formed with corona than an arc, but more corona may form if the spark plug isn't connected - open circuit = higher peak voltages.
before.
//
Yep. Use a strobe-light timing light while cranking.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
With all this hope and change, all you need is a dab of mayonaisse
and you\'ll have a tasty lunch.
//
magnifying glass,
turned it over,
thing.
HV cable, as that
Ozone? You shouldn't smell ozone, ever. If Jan really smelled it, that'd mean exposed high voltages are afoot. Broken / intermittent spark plug wire? That could fail abruptly.
But accurate smelling is dicey in a parking lot next to a stinky, flooded scooter. A spark test with the plug removed (possibly in darkness, to look for corona along the wire) should tell the tale.
Cheers, James Arthur
Wonder how much money and time are wasted, when a competent mechanic can probably have this up and running in minutes ?:-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
With all this hope and change, all you need is a dab of mayonaisse
and you\'ll have a tasty lunch.
Quite a bit wasted, I'm sure. But it's fun to figure stuff out. And you could easily waste a lot of time and money trying to find a competent mechanic--I know I have!
Best regards, James Arthur
Once you find a good mechanic, you should hang onto him like a good wife ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
With all this hope and change, all you need is a dab of mayonaisse
and you\'ll have a tasty lunch.
On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:12:20 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson wrote in :
Question is: Where are the competent mechanics. The dealer I bought this from, *has* one, I know, but the way he delivered it (new), I found is the worst you can imagine. Not only were the mirrors not fixed when I drove away on it, I also found that he put screws in mis-aligned, but with force, good thing I have good tools to get it out again. How he ever got a Kymco dealership is something beyond me. So I am scared to send it to them, it may come back worse then before. Had the same problem with an other company with my car. As far as the Kymco guy goes, when I went to the post office to do the paperwork for the scooter, years ago, the guy behind the counter said: 'Oh, you have not bought from him have you, he is the worst' -horror stories- and, now I can see why. Anyways I mentioned the post office guy to that dealer, he flipped out, was gone do something about him... LOL. So, good mechanic, I know one or 2 in or near Amsterdam,.
Anyways, it is still not working, and got fed up with it and watched a Marlon Brando movie where he did shoot the bad guy in Mexico, and got aways with the horse and girl.
This scooter is actually a very complicated thing, it has emission control, and no less then 3 air intake points: ftp://panteltje.com/pub/kc_emission_control.gif
I found the air filter is dirty and smelling of oil, like it has been blowing from the carter through the air filter and not sucking in air... Back to the carburetor, will take it out again tomorrow and dismantle it as far as I can this time. Always learning. I am sure the electronics is OK now. And no, it is not in a parking lot, but in my own garage,
If all fails: Ebay?
If you have not tried a new spark plug then go buy one now. 99% of problems with small engines are spark plugs. They often look to be working, but will not function once tightened up in the plug hole. I cannot remember the number of times I had plug issues on my scooter.
On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:16:07 -0600) it happened Tim Wescott wrote in :
Tim, I want to thank you. I did not have starting fluid, but the week before I bought a pack of 3 lighters. I do not smoke, and I wondered why I bought those, as I still had one, and hardly used it other then for lighting candles and stuff like that, but it was years old and almost empty, the little voice in my heart said: 'Buy those lighters'. So I dismantled the scooter a bit further, so I could remove the tubing to the air filter, and get to the carburetor inlet. Emptied one lighter (without sparking it of course), while turning the starter. No go. Then I forced the slide in the carburetor wide open by taping the gas handle, and putting in a screwdriver to override the vacuum valve, emptied the second lighter... It sneezed, not done that for some time. Waited a few minutes, tried same procedure again, it runs!!! Left it running, connected choke back (it gets voltage from the alternator, so it stops working when engine rotates), kept running... Stopped it, kick-started it, OK on second try.
So *WHY* all the problems? not fuel, not spark, likely polluted air filter.... Will have to see (later this afternoon), if it still works with the air filter back. Anyways thank you!
Brando movie
from the carter through
as I can this time.
Oil in the intake suggests a positive crankcase ventilation system and a problem - anywhere from too much oil in the engine, to excess blow-by caused by bad rings or scored cylinder walls.
Good picture. That shows a "constant velocity" style carb. Those are excellent designs and rely on vacuum to pull up the slide which varies the jet opening proportional to the intake air. CV carbs are great for maintaining a proper mixture over some wide ranges of altitude. CV carbs can be touchy about vacuum - you open a butterfly valve with the throttle, but it takes vacuum to pull up the slide/needle to introduce the mixture into the engine.
The rest of it, just looks like a system to introduce some additional oxygen into the exhaust stream (carbon monoxide is flammable) to make it pollute less.
Is there a carb overflow? Downdraft carbs are sometimes notorious for flooding engines. You probably also have a vacuum shut off fuel valve in there somewhere - lest you forget to shut off the fuel when parked. Small vacuum leak and all the fuel in the tank won't do a bit of good.
All the extra air stuff shouldn't matter to the engine. It would probably run if it was plugged solid - but a vacuum problem might be a different story.
CV carbs are great for maintaining a proper mixture over some wide ranges of altitude.
If it doesn't work with the air filter back on you know what to suspect...
-- http://www.wescottdesign.com
Ok, story not really related, but similiar...
Many years ago, I bought a new Ford Fiesta (from Fiesta Ford... 8-) ) The only problem was it didn't have air conditioning, and I wanted air on it, so, after about a week, they finally got it on. I then had to move to a new job location 100 miles away.
A few months later, I got my first tune up. I was working 9:30 to
6PM, so I got up early, went in to a little tune up place, and then headed to work. I lived in San Berdoo, and was working in Crestline, so this involved a little drive up 2000' feet of mountain. Got to the first real up slope, and the car started dragging and chugging.Stopped, and looked at the engine, checked the filters and carb. Couldn't see anything wrong. Started the engine, and thank goodness, it was running normally. Went back to the shop and complained. They looked at it, and couldn't see any problem. Went to work, and came home.
Next morning, going to work, hit the slope, and same problem. Looked at things again, and it started working normally. Next morning took it to shop, and again, they couldn't find anything wrong.
Went on like this for a week. I tell you, I was getting madder and more frustrated every day. I was driving that little tune up shop nuts, and I was about ready to blow the place up.
Finally, after about two weeks, we finally found the problem. (I don't remember for sure if THEY found the problem, of if I enlisted the aid of my co-workers and WE found the problem...) It seems that, when I insisted on adding air conditioning to my car, there was a little difficulty, the wiring harness on my car wasn't set up for it! The dealership didn't have any way to get the correct wiring harness, so they made up their own! So, any guesses what they missed?
Ok, times up. They missed the choke wire! While there was a wire attached to the electrically heated choke, it wasn't connected to anything! I hadn't noticed, because the dealership had just adjusted the choke to never close, and the car had run just fine without it! However, the little tune up shop HAD correctly adjusted the choke, so, since there was no electric heater working on it, it didn't release like it should. Of course, when I looked at the carb, I just flipped the choke plates out of the way, and it would work just fine. And once the engine was really warm, the choke released anyway, so the tune up shop never saw it operate! That was one hard thing to troubleshoot!
Charlie
As a lad of 26 I bought a new '66 Toyota.
No A/C.
But it did have one of those exhaust smog blower thingies taking up the space that a compressor would fit in.
Since, in those years, AZ had no smog test laws, guess what went bye-bye ?:-)
Bought compressor, condenser, hoses and internal blower at JC Penney, made my own brackets, used left-over pulley from smog blower, got it charged up and, bingo, I had air.
Of course it wasn't too peppy up hills, but there aren't many hills in the immediate vicinity ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
With all this hope and change, all you need is a dab of mayonaisse
and you\'ll have a tasty lunch on which you will choke to death.
On my old Geo Metro, my boss was very amused when, while going up the on-ramp to the freeway, I reached over, hit the A/C button to off, and announced "Diverting power from life support!"...
Charlie
Sno-o-o-o-ort ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
With all this hope and change, all you need is a dab of mayonaisse
and you\'ll have a tasty lunch on which you will choke to death.
On my Honda that same feature was activated, in the same situation, with the announcement "Warp drive ... ENGAGE!"
Cheers, James Arthur
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