OT Best explanation of 5G and what it is about I have seen yet.

You really don't understand analogies do you? Perhaps you could demonstrate drowning in 3 inches of water?

Oh, so they don't use beam forming because it doesn't work? I didn't know that. I thought it worked pretty well. Silly me.

One guiding principle of cell phones is there's never enough bandwidth.

Yes, people are concerned about many things they don't actually understand. As I've indicated, there is nothing fundamentally different between 30 GHz and 3 GHz in terms of safety. We just need to keep the power levels low enough that we don't cook anyone and that's not hard to do as indicated by the general safety we presently see with cell phones.

Maybe we need to use the frog in the pot approach. We are presently in the 2 GHz range. Maybe bump it up to 3 GHz this fall, 4 GHz in the winter, 5 GHz in the spring, etc. The frog will not notice it is being cooked before we reach 30 GHz. Especially if we use beam forming and keep the power levels low.

Obviously you do if you compare X-rays to cell phone signals.

Adding very insignificant levels is still an insignificant level. The only signal that needs to be considered it the phone held next to your head. The inverse square laws makes all the other emitters "noise" in this context if not literally.

Do you hold twelve phones next to your head?

Yes, they do. There are no effects causing harm. We already have billions of phones in use every day in exactly these conditions. 3 GHz is no different from 30 GHz in this regard. Let me know when cell phones start using UV light.

In airports there are almost no laptops being used, maybe one in the entire crowd waiting for a given flight. You can make up any crap you want, but go to an airport and look around. People are not really that addicted to their gadgets. Most are sitting bored, doing nothing. The next most common activity is talking on the phone. Everything else is in the noise.

The phone companies would like us to be forever using our phones. My usage has gone up in Puerto Rico because I can't find my way around without using a map program. Still, that's in the noise compared to my usage on the laptop.

I think that is a fairly old document. Facetime does use HD video when it can. My measurement is of the uplink and downlink traffic relating to one of the end points in the call. Each end has high bandwidth (>100Mbit/s) and good WiFi connectivity so retransmission seems unlikely. However, that is a possibility so next time I might do a packet dump to confirm whether the 4Mbit/s really is genuine.

John

Rick C snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news:64bc5d58-bebc- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

The reference was to show that intersecting beams means additive energy at that point.

Obviously you need a reading comprehension course if you think I was making that comparison. I was referring to the mechanics of additive energy levels at points of intersection. This frequency is very directional wave projection. Hell, the nodes probably have a column of little dishes in them.

And they are *not* standard "cell phone signals". That is the point.

Rick C snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

No, we do NOT.

There are little to NO 30GHz close array cell node nets out there.

And there is zero data on us being immersed in one.

Your math is off, billions boy.

I kinda just take her end conclusion about having not fully investigated the lower frequeuncies yet as a disclaimer or cover your ass kind of thing just in case someone at sime time finds some small medical issue with high-ish power, low-ish frequency radiation.

I certainy do not think anyone will find anything definitively but I'm not betting my life on it. Just in case. Doesn't make sense to me why it would harm anybody except for cooking you.

Are you really in Peurto Rico ?

boB

Yes, Guayama at the moment and why would you doubt it?

Why do you reply in the middle of a post without trimming the rest? I get tired of being one of the few who trim posts.

For the benefit of the non-believers, here are some stats I just captured from a Facetime call. My router records uplink and downlink traffic relating to the iPad that was used for this call. Each line lists data for a 100 second time period.

<record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:06:41Z" ave-rx-bps="3305000" ave-tx-bps="3922000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:08:21Z" ave-rx-bps="2787000" ave-tx-bps="4004000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:10:01Z" ave-rx-bps="2263000" ave-tx-bps="4002000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:11:41Z" ave-rx-bps="2586000" ave-tx-bps="4035000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:13:21Z" ave-rx-bps="2929000" ave-tx-bps="3988000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:15:01Z" ave-rx-bps="2909000" ave-tx-bps="3989000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:16:41Z" ave-rx-bps="2641000" ave-tx-bps="3976000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:18:21Z" ave-rx-bps="2714000" ave-tx-bps="3950000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:20:01Z" ave-rx-bps="3425000" ave-tx-bps="4000000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:21:41Z" ave-rx-bps="3608000" ave-tx-bps="3978000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:23:21Z" ave-rx-bps="2932000" ave-tx-bps="4024000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:25:01Z" ave-rx-bps="3070000" ave-tx-bps="3946000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:26:41Z" ave-rx-bps="3181000" ave-tx-bps="3983000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:28:21Z" ave-rx-bps="3611000" ave-tx-bps="3994000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:30:01Z" ave-rx-bps="3102000" ave-tx-bps="3989000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:31:41Z" ave-rx-bps="3542000" ave-tx-bps="4012000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:33:21Z" ave-rx-bps="3930000" ave-tx-bps="3980000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:35:01Z" ave-rx-bps="3976000" ave-tx-bps="3993000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:36:41Z" ave-rx-bps="3783000" ave-tx-bps="3994000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:38:21Z" ave-rx-bps="4060000" ave-tx-bps="3919000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:40:01Z" ave-rx-bps="4023000" ave-tx-bps="3994000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:41:41Z" ave-rx-bps="3619000" ave-tx-bps="3994000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:43:21Z" ave-rx-bps="3696000" ave-tx-bps="4011000"/> <record timestamp="2021-10-09T17:45:01Z" ave-rx-bps="3611000" ave-tx-bps="4034000"/>

On this occasion, the outgoing data stream from my end was almost exactly 4Mbit/s while the incoming data stream varied between about 2.9 and 4 Mbit/s. I simultaneously did a Wireshark capture of the first 5 minutes of the call and this showed identical results. On other occasions I have seen a constant 4Mbit/s each way. The traffic consisted of large UDP IPv4 packets. The destination address was in the address space of the other parties service provider, suggesting either that Facetime had managed to tunnel a direct connection through the carrier grade NAT at the far end to my end or that the remote service provider (Hyperoptic) have a Facetime proxy server in their network. I know that mine does not. The end-to-end latency of the connection was 8ms. I was in a position to monitor the packet loss to a variety of sites from both ends of the call and there was none, so the connections were very clean.

Conclusion: Most of the information "out there" about maximum data rates for Facetime calls is wrong. Given a good connection, Facetime will use 4Mbit/s.

John

Your interpretation needs some interpretation I think. I did not doubt you

Was in PR about 4 years ago or right after the big hurricane. Really liked it there but most of that was up in the hills, somewhere in the middle helping with adding solar power. Would like to go back

Didn't know that little teeny bit of text above and below needed any trimming. Let's just type a bunch of blank spaces ?

Nahhh.. Conserve on bytes and just insert tabs instead. Maybe a displayable character every now and then.

Don't forget to have some beach time.

boB

Ok, but "are you really in PR" sounds like a doubting question. No matter.

I'm thinking of staying in Ponce next, but it is at short notice and I'm not getting my questions answered very quickly. I might try staying in Caguas rather than near it. I'm more city phobic, but the areas around the cities still don't have much in the way of yards around houses until you get to really pricey places. So I'll try the cities. My first week was in Condado in San Juan county, but that's really in the city.

Do you remember which part? I haven't explored the central mountainous areas so much. I stayed at a house between Juncos and San Lorenzo not far from Caguas. It was on a ridge near the peak and the road is rather treacherous. The combination of a curve and a drop off and the narrowness of the road makes everyone blow their horns as they approach right in front of the house. lol

Yeah, looking back at the post I'm not sure why I wrote that. Many posts here never trim and the post gets hugely long, but not the one I replied to. <shrug>

Tabs are removed by Google Groups, turned into a single space I believe, so no ascii art.

I'm pretty allergic to the beach, very fair. I went out for about 20 minutes to water plants without a shirt and got a sunburn that was just shy of peeling I think. The sun is very hot here. We are south of the Tropic of Cancer, so the sun goes further north than vertical in the summer.

I did go out one day at dawn to inspect turtle nests. This beach is a protected nesting site for Leatherbacks. We would check the condition of the nests and if they were done hatching we would dig them up for an inspection and count of the results. Some of them had live hatchlings which we tried to release to the sea, but there were birds around that would eat them in a heartbeat. So they were taken to a person who would nurse them for a day or two and release them at night. The Leatherbacks are in decline, so every turtle is important.

Some streets near the nesting beaches have red streetlights so they don't distract the turtles.

I'm very impressed with how friendly the people are here. Nearly everyone is happy to stop and talk to you. Once I'm done with this board build I'd like to get involved with the community I settle in.