Nokia

They could still make it work. But it would require major changes on the part of Microsoft. Instead of a "mee, too!" product such as a 3rd iOS or Android they should concentrate on the more professional users because the consumer market is gone for them. What do they want? Most of them want seamless transfers of computing tasks. If, for example, I could do some simple what-if or filter simulations on LTSpice right on a smart phone they would have me.

They also need to analyze why Windows CE became screwed up, and soon. Before it happens again, only this time in a more expensive way. Some of the reasons I could tell them because I was one of the guys who turned away from CE when we needed an embedded OS.

I've hear the Windows phone arent that bad. I don't have one, and I'm not going to buy one to find out. And that's exactly what the problem is.

Cheers

And they redesigned Windows to look and behave just like a phone that nobody wants.

Some nice detailed reviews would do. But there aren't any to write home about. Plus the carriers need to be involved, that's key. AFAIK mine has lots of Android and some with iOS, that's it.

Yep. I learned that lesson in late 1987. Windoze 2.0 was about to be released and Microsoft was doing everything they could to get independent hardware suppliers onboard, including substatial OEM discounts if they bundled Windoze 2.0 with the hardware. We wrote drivers and sent them off to Microsoft. We put together a marketing plan, OEM and retail packaging, demos, and advertising awaiting the promised release data and the deliver of pre-ordered Windoze packages to go with the hardware. A few weeks before the release, Jon Shirley, prez of Microsoft casually announced that the deal was off, and that Microsoft no longer needed the hardware suppliers since they already had all the drivers that they needed.

Nokia is no better, but I can't talk about that incident. I guess MS and Nokia deserve each other.

As Bill Gates famously told the CEO of a company that he destroyed, "You made one mistake; you trusted us."

I suggest you either try a Windoze phone, or ask someone who has one what they think. You may actually want one.

Frankly, I'm impressed with the device. The OS doesn't crash (some lousy apps do crash), it's fast, it's responsive, easy to use, and has an adequate battery life: Apps are behind, but the selection (170K) is barely adequate but should improve. 20K apps were added in the last 12 months:

It takes about 2 years for sales to ramp up on any new phone. That's because the typical subsidized phone contract is 2 years and the average life of a smartphone is about 18 months. As older phones are recycled and replaced by newer models, I expect Windoze phone sales to increase somewhat.

The problem with the Windoze phone is that Microsoft is late to the party. They're in the same position as computer vendors were coming up against IBM in the last century. Buying IBM was considered safe. Competitors needed to have a substantial price or performance advantage over IBM in order to get the sale. That's where Microsoft is today. Unless the Windoze phone can offer a price, performance, or feature advantage, sales will continue to lag behind Apple and Android.

My phone has two functions: it makes calls and it gets calls. I think maybe it has a calendar, so that would be three.

I think it was a lame attempt at subliminal advertising, but rather than make people love the Dozey phone it made them hate Win8.

But the number of apps for Dozey phones is miniscule compared to the offerings on Android or Apple - iff you *want* a smartphone that is.

Personally I find their incredibly short battery life worse than useless. My retro dumb phone a Nokia 6303 will last a couple of weeks on one charge. If I had the uglier 6310 it would be even longer. My wifes smartphone never manages two days without crashing into its low battery warning panic. It also seems to include the antenna "design" from hell - poor signal where the dumb phone sees the network just fine.

A curious thing is happening in the UK where certain old models with the very best functionality and battery life are holding their value in the secondhand market. Nokia has recently launched a couple of products really intended for the third world with cheap plasticky cases but good frugal power management and a couple of weeks operational ife per charge. But the premium market at present is all for fancy toys.

They are still below weak in the UK too. Android and Apple has the market sown up. Though Nokia were struggling before their involvement with Microsoft - it could well be a marriage made in hell.

Interesting that the announcement of Mickeysofts CEO Ballmer drove the share price higher by 14% last week. Irrational exhuberence in the city seem to think that they are better off with no-one steering the boat.

I am with you on this one. Though you need to add the additional feature of a long battery life in standby and in use!

The entire story of Nokia is a tragedy. They are good at opening up a market but keeping market share is not their strong point. They used to make rubber boots, TVs, etc before mobile phones.

The only thing Microsoft is good at is integrating their software into one package which -more or less- works together for a very low price (compared to their competitors).

Such as Linux? ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I charge mine once a week or so. There are lots of cell sites around here, so it doesn't burn a lot of transmit power. And I must spend a minute or so per week talking. It's a Verizon "The Rock", which mean it's unbreakable. I keep it in my pocket with keys and knives and stuff, and you can literally toss it down a flight of stairs with no ill effects.

I had a hard time getting the Verizon sales guy to tuen off everything but POTS. No texting, no missing call nonsense, no webby stuff.

I almost took out a pedestrian last month. I was turning right, and he was standing in the middle of the intersection, texting, oblivious of the big red DON'T WALK light thing.

And I almost collided with a bicyclist who was texting.

Restaurants don't need lighting any more; every table is covered with open, glowing smart phones.

Google gives away Android, right? That was probably a strategic move to damage Microsoft. It seems to be working.

Microsoft doesn't seem to need help with that ;) and while Google gives android away most manufacturers of Android device have a license agreement for patents with Microsoft

so for each Android device sold MS gets and estimated 5-8$

-Lasse

If you do the real math of an 'open source' product in a commercial environmend then Microsoft usually offers the solution with the best bang-for-your buck. For example: A commercial Mysql license is more expensive than Microsoft SQL. The same goes for their Exchange server suite (e-mail, calender, web-mail).

Microsoft messes up every odd Windows release and getting into embedded systems isn't working at all for them but they do have reasonable office automation products.

I have the LG VN251. Only needs charging about every 10 days.

Same here. I had to get nasty to get Verizon to kill that annoying backup crap of theirs.

It's a sad reflection of what family is all about anymore...

Some weeks ago we're in Spinato's, a semi-upscale pizzeria.

A family is seated at the table next to ours... father, mother, son, daughter... each one had their own "smart" phone, each one busy at some task... NOT ONCE did they speak to each other. ...Jim Thompson

That's as much a choice of DB as it is "doing the real math". For example, Postgresql is truly free (including for commercial applications), and arguably has greater data integrity. How 'open source' MySql might be is increasingly in doubt as Oracle now owns it and seems hard at work making sure it won't compete with its flagship DB.

They are certainly widely used. Of course, they have some serious flaws - e.g. don't trust their backward compatibility. My IT manager routinely recommends the free OpenOffice to read old *docs (originated with Word) that the latest Word can't understand.

I actually have to give MS some credit for changes to their OS. They've clearly tried to make advances (even if not always the right ones or well executed) rather than just polishing the old one. This kept their majority position until the game simply dissolved and a new one was formed.

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:47:20 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: [snip]

Common occurrence these days. I started noticing it a couple of years back going to lunch with work colleagues. We would all sit down, say a couple of words, order, and then out would come the phones. No discussions of current events, work issues, nothing - just people "conversing" with their phones.

"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots"

Said to be from Albert Einstein

Consider that nail well whacked.

I broke down and got a smart phone 18mos. ago. My "killer app" was the WiFi hotspot but since I've had the phone the app I can't do without is Navi.

I've always charged my phone once a day. It's part of the routine. If I waited until the battery was dead, it would be.

Function takes power. It's the same for laptops.

Ah, that's too bad...

The anti-Jobs?

Not by a long shot. I'm not one to jump on every latest technology fad but this one is here to stay. The only reason I got cell phones to begin with is that two were cheaper than a land line. Smart phones give me something more than a phone I rarely use.