noi siamo noi

Science isn't a religion. Everybody was happy to junk Newtonian physics when special and general relativity showed up, and the experimental evidence showed the Einstein was more nearly correct.

Missiles are just things that get thrown. Even if your reactionless drive works, the thing it moves around will still be a missile.

Rockets have got us to the moon, and they've got exploring robots to Mars. Their economics are horrible, but there are cheaper schemes that could do the same job that might become technologically feasible.

You do seem to think that you have discovered a new technology, but the "evidence" that you have presented so far isn't all that convincing.

In fact it looks terrifying like earlier schemes that turned out to be scams.

Samples have been analysed in situ on the planet though since Viking.

It probably doesn't smell all that different to moon dust. Although since Mars was once wet and is red rusty there is a distinct possibility that at one time in the distant past it had photosynthesis of some sort making oxygen. Rocky planets are born with a reducing atmosphere of mostly hydrogen, water and methane much like Saturn's moon Titan is now. Reduced iron salts are very water soluble and pale green.

A few Martian meteorites have reached Earth (about 0.5% of all those found and classified are thought to be Martian). The odd one has even had controversial claims of microfossils being found:

It is an annoying place to try and land a space vehicle. More than enough atmosphere to burn up on re-entry but not enough to make parachutes work properly so ingenious ways of slowing down are needed.

Oh, I've worked with TOF atom probe spectroscopy and backscatter analysis and analytical NMR and all sorts of exotic physics. Physiscists need help with circuits.

But a lot of the solar system has rocks with similar isotopic content. Declaring a meteorite to be a chunk knocked of Mars is a real hand-waver.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

But not with neutron activation or emission spectroscopy?

Circuit design is a specialised skill. You seem to need to learn more about it

"Similar"?

That kind of argument doesn't get into the peer-reviewed literature.

Not really. The oxygen isotopic signature on Mars is different enough to recognise Mars rocks. Although that doesn't stop charlatans on eBay selling Mars meteorites that are just similar looking Earth rocks.

Anyone with a stable isotope MS or a noble gas MS would be able to test the gasses in inclusions and see old Martian atmosphere if it is real.

I suppose analysis methods are more refined these days, but in 1974 I simulated a meteorite hit in a class mate's garden as a hoax. What I did not anticipate is that everyone took this seriously. It was just a piece of steel furnace slag, but even the Max Planck institute in Germany refused to admit they'd been fooled.

Jeroen Belleman

Back then they wouldn't have any easy way of testing it. That all changed in about 1990 when TOF ion probes and laser ablation mass spectrometry came of age. Before that you had to pound it to dust and dissolve in HF (not nice) then do some very fancy wet chemistry.

I worked on software for the mass spectrometric rare earth element analysis of meteorites at one time (and on dating ancient rocks).

The geologists get very excited about the Europium anomaly in them. That one species is a marker that varies enormously with the type of rock and the chemical environment when and where it was formed.

Cute demo with a modern Nd magnet you can collect micrometeorites from the black gunge that accumulates in PVC gutters. Too small for the naked eye to see but obvious with even a basic toy microscope.

Wouldn't therre be a lot of diffusion in billions of years?

Same for ice cores.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

The Martian meteorites got knocked off Mars rather more recently - we wouldn't be finding them on the surface of the earth if they had landed here billions of years ago,

Ice cores may not show much annual variation after some 800,000 years in the Antarctic ice sheet. There's obviously some diffusion but not enough to wipe out the variation from ice ages to interglacials

Here's the official story about some recent Australian ice cores

Not true. Back when I was an undergraduate I had to check out an X-ray fluorescence scheme for detecting low levels of alumina (Al2O3) in titanium dioxide (TiO2) for my summer job, in 1961. As a graduate student I met Alan Walsh (in 1968) who pretty much invented atomic absorbtion spectroscopy, where you sprayed the solution into a flame and detected the absorbtion lines of specific elements in the flame.

Australia's plastic banknotes have holograms as a side effect his efforts to make cheap plastic diffraction gratings to disperse the light that had been through the flame.

Inorganic chemists took to physical methods early.

Mass spectrometers work, but you need big expensive precise machines to sort out the isotopes of heavier elements (and I didn't work on them until 1992, and then only briefly).

You are terrifyed from PNN experimental tests

You are terrifyed from PNN experimental tests

Some of them are geologically speaking relatively young.

They have Martian meteorites where the inclusions contain gasses in about the same ratios as Viking measured and more importantly with the same isotopic ratios for Oxygen and Carbon as Mars has.

The gas inclusions that the geologists target are typically in zircons (which are practically indestructible once formed) and not much diffuses through or into them. Helium might possibly but the other noble gas atoms are just too big. The time of last melting is one of the important things that can be uniquely determined for any rock/ceramic/glass by MS. The point in time where stuff from radioactive decay remains trapped.

Ice cores are surprisingly good at preserving past atmospheres trapped at the time that the snow fell and then compacted. The Oxygen isotope ratios in ice itself and in stalagtites are a good proxy for global mean temperature. The lighter forms of water molecule are slightly more volatile and preferentially collect as solid ice at the poles leaving the seas and rain elsewhere enriched in the heavier isotopes.

Demonstrating that you are incompetent experimentalists isn't a great way to attract investors/

My prototypes work despite me being incompetent, while you competent people only have chatter

Several LNER proponents seemed to have been able to do it. One even took DOD for a ride :(

They only work for some very relaxed definition of "work".

You were consuming 250W for minutes and generated at most 2 gram force if we are to believe your graph and that was using an apparatus that is of unstated weight and a lot of energy.

One thing about spacecraft is that they have to carry all their energy source with them. How will your magic carpet be powered?

Doing nothing of PNN experiment, you try to understand what i say by newtonian physics. Conclusion : PNN is absurd for you :-)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

All you have provided so far is "proof by dynamic assertion".

Yogic flying stands more chance of getting men to Mars!

C’mon, Martin, enjoy the fun—historically the real crazies round here have been German, Dutch, or Australian, so an Italian one is a novelty. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Josef Matz, John Brookes, and Dirk Bruere—where are they now?