My rant...

So you are saying that there are only two kinds of people,

Those that work and use the Entrepreneur spirit to get a company to make money.

Then there are those "that steal from the rich"

The millions of people that are the middle class do not exist in your definition of Americans.

Does that about sum it up ??

hamilton

=A0 =A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

No, not exactly. The Wall Street types took their "middle class" status away years ago. (along with their pensions, retirement, job security...) Now "middle class" is just lip service, They'll be paying their mortgages with their kids education dollars forever, thus perpetuating the cycle.

The solution is actually quite obvious, and simple too: We need a new bubble to ride.

I predict it will be Twitter or Facebook on the next generation iPhone. Or people putting GPS tags on everything from dogs to soup cans and tracking their every move. (In other words, no real productivity.)

Nice Op-Ed, Jim. We don't always agree, but I thought it was well written. The degree thing seemed a bit self-serving and elitest, and it's not that degrees aren't needed: it just that the world moves faster than traditional degree programs can keep up. Some fields are worse than others, of course.

There's plenty I disagree with Jim on, but his comment about degrees is one I wholeheartedly do agree with: Most of the jobs today -- even those that require engineering degrees -- are relatively "shallow" in the sense that it doesn't take nearly four years to become proficient in them. E.g., without my trying to be boostful here, I was absolutely a better software developer coming out of high school than some of the computer science graduates I see today, and I'm equally convinced that Jim was a better hardware designer out of high school than many graduate BSEEs today.

One thing that I do think is more true now than ever before is the idea of "life-long learning" -- while it's not particularly difficult, it's something today's generation will largely need to be on top of whereas my impression is that even 25 years ago after you finished college the likelihood of a vert large percenteage of people every cracking open another textbook was nil. But it's still life-long learning of pretty straightforward topics -- I'm amazed that any job offering today includes such basic requirements as "proficiency with MS Word," when by "proficient" they just mean, "can type up letters, do a little formatting, mess around with headers and footers, generate a table of contents, etc."

---Joel

He said, and I quote, "two types of employers."

Maybe his next rant will be on the education system and reading comprehension skills.

mpm misses my point. Like most liberals he fails to notice that the world is also populated by plumbers, electricians, machinists, mechanics, etc., that don't need a "college" education... they need a "trade school" education... and often these trades pay better than what we "educated" people make.

In mpm's ideal world, everyone would be a member of Mensa. Having been a member of Mensa, I can assure you they're primarily populated by fatheads who think they should be paid according to their IQ, NOT according to their productivity... heaven forbid we should include the word "productive" in a liberal's vocabulary ;-)

Perhaps. I could build things that worked. (Tooobz no less.) But I only vaguely had a clue as to why.

I'm still learning. I don't ever expect to stop... except for that final stop sign :-) ...Jim Thompson

I was next going to dig in my heels and address brain-washing by our "educators".

But maybe reading comprehension should come first.

It's amazing what liberals read into the "new" AZ "illegals" law.

The law simply says it is a law of the United States that illegal means _illegal_, and we're going to enforce it. ...Jim Thompson

Yabut! Since most of those illegals, at least in the US are of a single racial minority, then all the other minorities are scared that they will be targetted next (as they have been in the past) and so are fighting tooth and nail to prevent it!

Heaven help us that we expect our law officers to actually enforce the laws equitably!

I liked that in a recent Flashforward episode a Japanese working illegally was swept up in a hispanic sweep... ;-)

Charlie

In Arizona, with tinted car windows the mode du jour, how does a police officer "profile" in the first place?

And, it's CLEARLY worded in the statute, produce a valid AZ driver's license and you're free to go.

We simply need to start killing liberals until they knock off propounding bull-shit. ...Jim Thompson

Hi Jim,

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Agreed. I heard an article on the (radio) news yesterday about how paid apprenticeships are making a comeback for machinists -- there just aren't enough of them out there right now, and while schools still teach the basics, in many cases they haven't caught up to industry with respect to how much CAD and computer interfaces now play a daily role in most machinist's jobs.

Oddly, the article's started with off with something like, "no longer just an unthinking job, machnists have gone high tech." -- Whoever wrote that must not know many machnists, since if they did they'd know that being a good machinst has always required plenty of thinking.

The percentage of people your age who can claim to have put up their own web page is likely in the low single-digits... :-)

---Joel

My father-in-law was a machinist, AND the most well-read person I've ever known. He was always complaining that high school graduates couldn't read a blueprint :-)

Is that something difficult? And 70 isn't really old anymore. I see people 20 years older than me still with their wits. ...Jim Thompson

In that, and the above, case I doubt the problem is reading comprehension skills to begin with as liberals don't 'think' they 'emote'. The definition of words, and the rational meaning of prose, is subjugated to the emotional value. So, for example, if they do not like a particular law then is it 'fascist' because 'fascist', whatever that means, is 'bad', just like their 'feeling' about the law they don't approve of.

Everyone does it to some degree or another but it seems to be the standard mode of operation for liberals.

Depends on what one is objecting to. I agree it doesn't conflict with Federal immigration law but another objection is the potential for racial profiling. On the other hand, I don't know how, whether Federal or local authority, you avoid the 'appearance' of it (in liberal speak) when the vast majority of offenders in the region are of a similar ethnic grouping.

It's a catch-22.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

I find it amazing that there apparently are people out there who can't read a

Not at all -- putting up your own web page falls squarely into that category of "not horribly deep/time-consuming/difficult" "continuous learning" that might have been optional for you, but isn't as much for the current generation -- at least if they want to remain employed. (But I think it's clear you've benefitted from *choosing* to keep learning life-long as well.)

I think most people here are hoping you're around at least that much longer!

---Joel

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There are some, but the incidence of Alzheimer's doubles every five years from the time you turn 65, and has got to 70% for the over-90s. So one in three "still have their wits" when they are twenty years older than Jim.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

A lot of people think a machinist is the guy who loads a chunk of metal into a CNC machine and pushes the start button. :(

See if you can fill the Grand Canyon! ;-)

Easy. They'll be driving around in a "Cheby", an "Ohsmobeel" or a "Bolswahgon"

Either that, or they'll have their last name stenciled on their rear windshield in reflective chrome Old English font. .... or tattoed on their chest.

-mpm

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

IQ tests for Voters and Politicians. IQ too low, can't vote or hold office.

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I didn't miss the point. (At least, I don't think I did?) I just draw a distinction between a plumber, and an out-of-work plumber. The latter could be said to be anything, for if he never picks up a pipe wrench again, is he still a plumber? (And by that, I imply the whole unemployment argument..)

I also don't disagree with your sentiments about college being completely unnecessary for the trades. But I'll have to re-read your original post and my comment to it, to decipher your reply. I generally think we're on the same page here, (?)

Although, I can tell you that when the economy turns sour, as it has in recent years, its always the middle class (and particularly the non- college, trade crowd) that gets further marginalized. That's really a separate issue from whether or not a college education is useful in a white-collar career, or whether the lack thereof meaningfully hinders some blue-collar trade.

-mpm

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

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=A0 =A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

Uh, you mean "A ver si puedes llenar el Gran Ca=F1=F3n!", right?

I'm so smart. Did all that Google Translate, cut-and-paste. And "No", Jim - they didn't teach us how to do that in college!! Actually, they might have, but I think most of my professors and classmates were from Pakistan. All that chatter ends up a blur anyway.

Hey, is there any truth to the rumor that the Frito Lay Mexican Bandito was "86'd" for political correctness? One upside of rounding up all the illegals is that maybe we can bring him back? I sort of liked those commercials growing up... :)