That's not true. The stations with credit cards readers always have their own RFID readers as well.
Well, why are we EV drivers forced to be exposed while charging? Perhaps they should be under-covered as well.
Yes.
Maybe. Chargings on highways and reststops are still critical and necessary.
This is not even talking about being free. We are talking about option to pay anonymously without being part of their big data. Big data are valuable to the free marketers, and given their own choice, will always be preferred.
Free electrons to Ed Lee is only temporary. All CalTran chargers have Credit Card readers, and might be billable at some time in the future.
Yes, now. Impose a mandate and the other cards will go away.
How are you exposed??? I either sit in my car or go get something to eat, mostly the latter. Both are the same as buying gas.
I'm heading back to VA from BWI Tuesday and don't have enough charge to reach my favorite Mojarra restaurant, so I'll need to pause for a few minutes in DC, then stop in Fredericksburg to get my grub. The one in DC is a 250 kW charger, so it won't give me enough time to walk to a restaurant much less eat. If it's raining I will get wet. The restaurant is some 100-200 yards from the pumps.
And not in need of handouts. The Volkswagen scandal provided 2 billion dollars for charging and that is more than needed for now. GM is working on getting into the fray as are the other automakers. It's turning into a feeding frenzy and they will end up working out the details just as they are doing with the connectors.
As individuals we have virtually no voice in the matter other than to vote with our wallets. I remember in 2018 asking a Chevy dealer about charging and I could hear a pin drop... nothing to say. Now that Tesla has more charging stalls in the US than anyone and are selling close to a million units this year, GM is getting the message. Caltran is just pissing in the wind.
Funny that some states don't allow electrons to be sold this way. You have to pay by the minute. That is the sort of thing that needs to be addressed. But then no one has the charging solution that Tesla does. Not only the best charging network, but integrated into the mapping system in the car along with range prediction and recommendations on stops to provide the shortest time charging. That's hard to beat. Does anyone else do that?
If having two readers is really too expensive, charging companies can always issue cards with chips. Or credit/debit cards going RFID. But judging from my experiences with charging stations RFID, i would rather have chip card.
No, because we would be missing out all the free stations. But i am still seeing many Teslas in free stations, they must be charging Out-Of-Band.
I must be thinking of something different than you. There's a picture here of a Pump & Pantry convenience store. Casey's is another convenience store chain in Nebraska.
The roofs over the pumps really don't do that much good. I think they're there mainly just for the lighting. A little breeze will push the rain or snow right to the pumps. There really isn't a cover over the credit card slots. These gas pumps are outside for practical purposes.
Doesn't take much to protect chip readers. Here is a totally exposed parking meter with reader:
Do you *know* that? My car gets GPS data, too. And, also provides real-time traffic updates. I wonder what sorts of devices they have patrolling the roads, gathering all that data?? Some sort of device that is mobile... likely has wheels on it and drives around *in* that traffic. Something to which they have access, by design...
Actually the shelters over the pumps do a LOT of good. I'm sure in really bad weather the pumps get wet, but try designing electronics to sit outside in direct rain, snow, etc 24/7. It's hard to make it last. It can be done, but the costs go up significantly. That's one of the big reasons why military gear is so expensive. It's intended to be used in the worst conditions and keep working.
The completely sealed RFID readers are not very much better. I have had problems with all the cards i carry, usually at DCFC stations. Perhaps the large transformer next to the station is causing problem.
Credit cards have decided to stay with chips, rather than RFID. They might know better with reliability, as well as security with RF.
You call that "not too much"??? Those cases are die cast! That is the most expensive case you can design other than possibly hogging out a solid piece of metal. Gas pumps and every EV charger I've seen is either a sheet metal or plastic cabinet.
The DC metro was going to use bronze castings for the turnstiles in the stations in spite of the HUGE cost until someone pointed out it would take a small crane to remove them for maintenance. I suppose they could bolt a parking meter onto the side of a charger and let you pay for time of charging rather than the kWh used. Then they don't need to do any mods!
Actually, for the cost of parking ($3/hr) in the city, they should provide L2 charging at every meter.
One difference (here at least) is that at a gas station you buy gas at an advertised price and pay to the owner of the station using a payment method that has nothing to do with gas purchases (like a credit card, debit card). One exception is for cars leased including gas, where you present a card that identifies you and puts the purchase on your car's account.
With EV chargers, it is different. Or actually, only that last option exists. There is no advertised price at the charging station, but rather you have a contract with some company that determines your rate structure and handles your payments. There are several such companies, and they can offer different contract options. So what you pay for your charge is not the same as what your neighbor pays, and it would be impossible to handle it via a generic payment system like a credit card, unless you ALSO identify to the charger as a customer with a specific contract, and the charging station can somehow communicate and get the details of that contract. (even then it won't work on a charge-by-charge basis because your contract may include "free" kWh per month, etc)
Not sure what you are trying to say. I don't know of any company that offeres free electrons per month, etc. Right now each network is trying to grow as fast as possible (most of them expecting to be bought up at a good markup from their current stock prices). Eventually there will be one or two national systems in the US with pretty similar payment methods (credit card) and the price will vary with location and possibly time of day or maybe regional networks some dozen or so. But the idea of competitive charging networks covering the same areas is not so practical I think as Ed Lee is finding.
What I'm wondering about is if there will be a push from the electric utilities to be involved. I don't know how significant daytime EV charging will be ultimately in the grid plans, but I can see utilities wanting to both have influence and be getting a slice of that pie. But they are very risk adverse, so they may be content to hang at the fringes and simply be a wholesaler... at least until the dust settles a lot more.
EvGo does offer discount rate for monthly subscription, frequent charger, etc, if you are willing to be tracked by using their card. However, i am more than happy to pay a bit more to be opted out of their tracking. Currently, most of their machines have chip reader. CARB wants to assure that the anonymous option is not taken away.
Incidently, many of ChargePoint's chargers do not have chip reader, but all have RFID readers, even for free stations. Perhaps there should be an exception for free chargers, since their only incentive is collecting big data in exchange for free electrons.
I am writing to CARB.
What I am trying to explain is that an EV charge point (here) is not a place where you buy a product at a pre-determined price. It is more like a cellphone subscription: you pay a price per call that depends on your contract with the supplier. That is not the guy who installs and operates the chargepoint (or the cell tower), but an administrative agency that sells chargepoint minutes and kWh using a complicated price structure. Some calls may be free while others aren't.
Just like you cannot pay for a cellphone call using a credit card, you can't pay for an EV charge. You only pay for the total service you had during e.g. a month.
Yes, we know that is the current system, but that will change. Most of the current networks will be bought up by the larger ones. As more EVs are on the roads there will be more pressure for user convenience. The first company who accepts credit cards without a subscription will have an advantage gathering the opportunistic chargees.
The only reason this won't happen is if there is a significant advantage in operation by having "subscribers" rather than customers. Costs are highly dependent on peaks and demand. So there may be a way to moderate that through subscriptions that isn't applicable to allowing roaming users. At this time I don't see that happening since peak costs can be mitigated by passing on those costs to the user. If there is useful feedback provided users will develop charging habits that minimize their costs and system costs.
I've seen charging stations on the web that have solar panels built in along with batteries as self contained units requiring no outside electrical connection. Plop it in a parking lot and it makes money. I can see that happening in work parking lots. When your car is about fully charged you can walk out to move it and another can take it's place. That might work much better with subscribers. You get a bit of exercise as well.
Another option is a self-driving charger. User just sign up in a waiting queue. When done with one car, it moves itself back to the base stations to recharge, then move to the next car in the queue. It would be a lot cheaper than having fixed charging stand in every space and no need to remind drivers to MOVE YOUR CAR when done.
Sure, sounds great. Let us know when you've completed that. lol Why not have the cars drive themselves instead. They are already mobile. That part Tesla has in place already. They just need the robot to plug in the cable. You should solve that for them.
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