Most awful hack job, but my kid likes it

I'll take your word for that - I'm not well versed in the effects of drugs.

I pop in to sci.electronics.design from time to time. On-topic subjects are sometimes of interest, and off-topic threads can be entertaining, but the huge noise-to-signal ratio drives me out again after a few days.

Personally, I haven't figured out whether Bush is a puppet controlled by self-serving Neocons (and/or others), or he really is in control himself. If he is a puppet, you really have to wonder how anyone that stupid, even in the American political system, could rise to that position. On the other hand, when he is caught on his own without his script writers and minders, he appears so lost and clueless that there is no way Bush himself is the mastermind behind the Bush machine. There's a saying, "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity", but I am in two minds as to whether it applies here.

Not that being a puppet is necessarily a bad idea for a president - at least, compared to being wilful but stupid - depending on the people pulling the strings. Regan was to a large extent a puppet figurehead (what do you expect if you vote in an actor?), but wasn't all bad.

I still don't see how my opinion of Bush "drips from my previous posts". You marked me down as a Bush hater, and degenerated to laughable insults, after a single one-line post. But I guess it drips more than enough from this post.

Incidentally, Rob Roy was not a politician - he was a farmer turned outlaw. If you want to pick on a Scottish politician, Tony Blair would be a better bet.

And Quisling arguably acted in what he genuinely thought was the country's best interest. He believed Hitler would win, and that cooperation would limit the damage to Norway and Norwegians, while resistance was ultimately futile and would make matters worse. History is written by the winners, and in this case it was not Hitler, Quisling, and friends.

But in general I agree - there are few politicians that are capable of doing a good job, and genuinely aim to do the best for their country. Some politicians have brains, and some have a heart - there are not many with both, but the USA seems to have an unfair proportion of those with neither.

I'm not *totally* biased - I am cynical and derisive towards both American parties and their leaders. Yes, I think Kerry would have been a better choice. Not a good choice, and probably not the best choice among the Democratic candidates, but better than Bush none the less. Of course, I can't prove it - but Bush's continuous record of lies, abuse of the American people and their hopes and fears, the destruction of the American economy, the on-going attempts of destruction of American democracy, the destruction of Iraq, the destruction of America's image around the world, the pandering to bin Laden's dream - the list goes on. It's hard to see how Kerry, or anyone else, could have been worse.

American media has always had a sheep mentality. They follow each other blindly. For most of the past five years, the mainstream media has followed the Bush party line on almost everything, with a total disregard for any concept of "truth" or "objectivity", for fear of being branded "unpatriotic" and therefore "terrorist sympathisers". Now, somehow, it has become possible to criticise Bush, and everyone is doing it.

Politics is almost circular - there is very little practical difference between extreme left and extreme right, it's the "extreme" that becomes most relevant. The extreme left and the extreme right will blame different groups for their countries ills, but it ends up much the same for the majority of people.

I guess you don't get much real information about Europe there in the USA. Your media has the attitude "out of America, out of mind".

A great thing about Europe is its diversity - for example, France's current problems are not mirrored outside the country, and social democracy works fine here in Norway (see the UN's list of the best countries to live in).

David

His latest bold, baldfaced lie, "The U.S. does not torture."

--
 Thanks,
    - Win

Clinton should have used the Marion Barry defense: "Bitch set me up."

-a

You know though, I'm wondering if maybe those Frenchmen don't have a good idea there with dealing with the rioters. "If you riot, and we catch you, we'll deport you whether your an immigrant or not".

I wonder how that would work in Cincinnati, Seattle, and LA?

Tillman Apathy is the hand that opens the door for tyranny.

I dunno. We'll have to ask the socialists over in France. Maybe they can give us a clue as to how to get our unemployment rate to 9.5% too.

Tillman

[somebody snipped attribution here]

It's interesting, in its own way, the way you Bushies' best defense against the creep is what a liar some other guy is.

Are you saying, "He's the lesser of two evils?" Ick.

Vote for ME! I'll end ALL of the wars, and fire the IRS at the same time!

And, of course, I know how to end terrorism. Just stop trying to cram our ideology down their throat by force of arms. It's that simple.

Thanks, Rich

How do you deport a citizen? To where?

It doesn't even work for illegals.

--
  Keith

^^^^^^^^^^

Till', you've answered your own question.

--
  Keith

Only leftist weenies are tortured ;-)

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

True. Sad, but true.

Harold

No, I'm posting it as an assertion. I'm calling on America to Do The Experiment. Pull the troops out of every place except the ones where we have been explicitly, overtly invited by a recognized government to do whatever they asked us there to do. (which is a whole nother topic, and a digression - back to the topic:) Let "those people" have their own country, in their own fashion, and if they want to kill each other, let them. They are not children, albeit the warlovers want to pretend that they can be treated as such.

The 9/11 attack on the Twin Towers was clearly retaliation for the American-supported, American-financed destruction of the tallest building in Beirut, allegedly by Israel.

America should declare Peace. Stop making war on people - we don't really need to, unless the rulers' real agenda is simply to loot their oil. If that's the case, then let's admit it. "Hey! We won! We're King Of The World! So now, we can take your lunch money any time we want to, and there's nothing you can do about it!"

I hate bullies - they should all be tortured to death.

Thanks, Rich [Philosophizer chimes in: But isn't it a terrible injustice to punish Body for the sins of Mind?)

Speaking of dupes parroting the party line, in denial and self-deception...

I guess the truth will out, if we manage to survive.

Good Luck! Rich

Can you tell me who told you this? I.e., from where comes this intelligence?

Aren't you here doing the same thing that you're accusing "them" of doing? ("Oh, they're savages! They want to kill us! WE MUST KILL THEM FIRST!!!!!)

Thanks, Rich

And I've heard that Iraq is an artificial country anyway. The Sunnis, the Kurds, and the Shiites don't want to have to see each other in the marketplace every day. So why not let them form Sunniland, Kurdland (I've heard the name "Kurdistan" - maybe they could call it "South Kurdistan" or something) and Shiiteland, and let them live their lives and worship in the church of their choice.

If they want to charge $1000.00/barrel of their own oil, well, dammit, that's what Free Will is all about.

But US big oil doesn't want that to happen - they want all of the profits for themselves, and don't seem to care whom they murder in pursuit of that goal.

But, the ones in cahoots with the murderers won't see this until they choose to undeny their own denial, and usually it takes death to get that message across, at which time, of course, it's too late.

Maybe these "terrorist bombings" are simply assasinations with a low signal-to-noise ratio. ;-)

Thanks! Rich

and all it takes to do that is the application of logic and reason.

Tillman

Im sure you DONT see how your opinon is obvious to outsiders. Thats not unusual for many people.

I know..I just grabbed the first famous Scot I thought of.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Hitler himself was doing what he thought was best for Germany. This however does not give him a pass, does it?

Actually...given the numbers of politicians in the US..the vast majority of whom you never have even heard of...Id say your claim is unwarranted.

But thats my opinion.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

It seems clear many innocent people have been tortured by us, and they were not left-wing political types at all. They were random people turned in for a bounty worth a year's pay, or more, and/or for local gain on the part of the warlord involved, and thereafter unchecked by any reasonable process.

Unhuh, you'd guffaw if I was tortured? **asshole**

--
 Thanks,
    - Win

I can only assume you're posting that as a parody of someone who is horribly naiive, right?

Actually..Im still trying to find any basis for your Leftards claims that Bush lied in the first place.

Reality check. Remove rose colored glassed, climb down from Ivory tower.

'So is this the reason so many Austrailians are dying in terrorist attacks, and why they just managed to break up so many tango cells down there in Oz this last week?

Their cramming their ideology of beer, bbq and brawling, (and naked broads on the beach) down their throat by force of arms?

And of course...France....all the rioting by Muslims because the French are hell bent on world domination?

Do you EVER think about geopolitics on your own, or are you simply a parrot spewing the latest Leftist agitprop?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner