Model train electronics (2023 Update)

The foamers have come to the conclusion that a reason their tracks get "dirty" and cause power drop-outs is in large part due to nickel oxides deposited on the nickel silver rail surface from micro-arcing and microscopic pitting caused by the pick-up wheels.

So they look for a surface coating or cleaner that reduces micro-arcing (if that really is the main reason) but doesn't affect traction too much; anhydrous isopropyl is thought inappropriate because it leaves the rail surface too dry after it evaporates, some swear by mineral spirits, I guess some use a thin coating of automatic transmission fluid.

Is it possible to rather reduce the micro-arcing at the source through some kind of snubbing or is that not really feasible wrt the process described.

Reply to
bitrex
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My understanding that nickle is used because nickle oxide is conductive, but on googling that it seems NiO is a semiconductor, not quite the same thing.

What I have to wonder about is why model railroads aren't using onboard batteries and charging them through coils beneath the tracks or in a tunnel. There's got to be a better way than worrying about cleaning rails and wheels.

BTW, what's wrong with a dry track??? That sounds like shade tree mechanics' talk.

Reply to
Rick C

Laying good track is difficult enough for a hobbyist, much less laying down an inductive charging system. Maybe if it were built into the ready-made snap track that's also available but that limits topological options.

It might work for the smaller gauges but IDK about 1:87 and larger. The stall current of an average HO 1:87 loco motor is already close to an amp. They're geared down perhaps 10:1 so 10k RPM maybe at 12 volts across the armature.. I think an inductive charging system will have trouble keeping multiple batteries you could fit in models that size charged for many hours the coupling won't be great and efficiency won't be great, either.

Three rail track makes life easier with reversing loops and such, two-rail DC-powered is a mess of switches to avoid shorts if you get fancy, even with just one loco, more if you want to run more than one train. DCC/digital command and power over the rails simplifies wiring but is anecdotally more finicky about dirty track than DC. Another system uses constant DC for track power and radio control for commands.

MRs are sometimes skeptical of a lot of that stuff they often tend to be as stuck-in-the-past as audiophiles. Even on old-fashioned DC power though using keep-alive capacitors in locos to minimize drop-outs on brief areas of dirty/dodgy track seems to be becoming more common; extending that to keep-alive battery seems feasible but then you have to re-design the whole motor drive scheme too.

It's been claimed dry track increases "micro-arcing" but beats me if that hypothesis as to where a lot of the "dirt" comes from is even true.

Reply to
bitrex

If they can fast charge a 100 kWh EV, I think a model train can be charged. If you are talking about a scale that's too large, let them feed wood or coal into the boiler.

How do they wet their tracks? I think you are talking about micro-fluff as in topical fluff. Like the silly stuff car or hi-fi enthusiasts do.

Reply to
Rick C

Trains have more than two wheels.

Use multiple pick-ups.

RL

Reply to
legg

That is the classic remedy.

And/or sliding spring-loaded silver-graphite blocks on some kind of dancer. The mechanical resonance frequency needs to be high enough that the dancer won't dance too wildly.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

The contacting interface is track-to-wheel, as I understand it. Not much choice there.

The use of multiple pick-ups reduces the loop area of stored energy to be quenched by arcing to the length of the wheelbase, removing the track-to source loop from the equation.

RL

Reply to
legg

Depends on the vintage of loco though.

Older ones have the wheels for traction only and a separate pair of spring loaded contacts for power pick up. The pickup spring loading was adjustable and the pickups replaceable - they wear quite quickly.

Proper locomotive models are live steam and commonly 3.5" or 5" gauge using anthracite for fuel. They will pull 3 or 4 bogeys full of kids.

Reply to
Martin Brown

And then there's the hybrid 15" Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway, pulling 8 carriages full of adults along 15 miles of track.

Great fun.

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Reply to
Tom Gardner

Sure there is - use two wheels on each rail, for a total of four electricity-carrying wheels. The game is that there will be at least one wheel on each track at almost all times, sharply reducing sparking and thus spark erosion.

These loops do not have nearly enough inductance to that to be significant. It's the motor load inductance that's the issue.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

Just curious, why would grown men play with model trains?

(I expect that few women do.)

Reply to
John Larkin

Is that supposed to be a hard question? Because playing with full-size ones is too resource-heavy...

Reply to
Mike Coon

It's sorta like grown men chasing picoseconds through components the size of peppercorns?

(I outgrew trains, and gave what remained to my nephew, who didn't stay interested all that long.)

I bet there is at least one unsuspecting girl who inherited her father's passion for model trains.

I've seen lots of youtube videos of young women running metal working lathes, and clearly know what they are doing - probably grew up with it, often on a farm.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joe Gwinn

Designing electronics is continuously interesting, and makes money as opposed to spending it.

The trains go round and round. Is that amusing, or is the construction the whole point?

We wouldn't have enough room anyhow.

I had a train set as a kid, but mostly took them apart.

One extremely expensive private high school near here has mandatory courses in electronics and welding.

Reply to
John Larkin

Same reason you model anything.

RL

Reply to
legg

If the layout is just a Circle Line I'm sure construction and elaboration is the only point.

But people have constructed layouts that replicate shunting logic puzzles. And maybe even those ethics challenges of whether to save one trespasser or several linesmen (etc)...

Reply to
Mike Coon

The largest ones are owned and operated by clubs, that type they can and do operate like a real railroad. Print up waybills, have virtual industries, make up and break down the trains and send the "goods" where they need to go. There's no shortage of people actually in the transit/logistics industry involved in the hobby (though often retired.)

And sometimes it's mostly art like this Great Depression-era layout was largely scratch-built by one guy over 25 years or so:

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Reply to
bitrex

Though I believe George Selios also ran a business selling kits for some of the structures and pieces he designed, Fine Scale Miniatures, so wasn't entirely a money-sink

Reply to
bitrex

OK. I solve mind-bending problems all day and then just want to hike a hill or read something silly. I guess some people want to work crosswords or play chess or build things to keep their brains happy.

Reply to
jlarkin

Someone gave us an giant elaborate wooden Christmas village thing custom-hand-build by some old guy in Germany. I'm not sure what we'll do with it.

Reply to
jlarkin

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