LM324 - Again but in more detail

On Dec 6, 2019, bitrex wrote (in article ):

e:

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wherein he strongly encourages the wearing of seat belts.

When I read the news articles, one detail leapt out -- he was not wearing his

(and music venue), and it occurred to me that he may have been somewhat drunk, given the occasion.

. .

Joe Gwinn

Whatever the reason, he is a profound loss to the community. I continue to miss him very much.

Not sure, roughly '84 or '85 maybe.

Wiki has his history.

Mo may remember. She was there.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

that was James Dean. lyrics from the song: "Along came a spyder, picked up a rider Took him down the road to eternity"

Thanks.

I didn't know that the output could peg high if the negative CM range was exceeded. Figure 5 reminds me of this:

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com

Widlar worked as a contractor for National for a number of years after leaving.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com

I bought it too, but it was a turgid mess. Bob's troubleshooting book is very good, and his early Pease Porridge articles have a lot of fun stuff too, before he ran out of material and started writing about freezing his toes while trekking in Nepal. (Not that I've ever gone trekking in Nepal myself, but it was supposed to be an electronics column, I thought.)

Anybody who really wanted to be safer on the road in 2011 would have been driving a car with front- and side-impact air bags, crumple zones, and so on. BITD a Beetle offered freedom at the price of danger, but that tradeoff is long gone.

2011 was a tough year--we lost Bob, Jim, Dennis Ritchie, and my old prof and mentor Tony Siegman. (He used to post a lot in sci.optics, and some times here as well, signing his initials AES.)

Memory eternal!

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com

If you pulled one input below ground in the original LM324, and not much below ground, all four outputs would go crazy.

And railing one output could glitch the other three. Shared current sources.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

We lost Peter Alfke around that time too, the old-time Xilinx application guru and FPGA missionary.

Pease lived near us and we'd sometimes drive past his house. His front yard, and the street outside his house, was littered with rusty hulks of Beetles and Microbusses.

The one he drove was packed with trash, with just enough room on the drivers' seat for one skinny butt.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

Some people like to use bias and/or nfb to minimise the distortion to where it's not a problem. Some people just like cheap. I've found the 324 perfectly workable with.

Nice pdf, thanks Piglet.

NT

Tom Fredericksen, I believe. He published an Art of Analog Ic design book under Nat Semi's catalog. I think Pease mentioned him in one of RAP's articles, too.

I say Fredericksen because he make much use of the LM324 in his book:

I have a copy somewhere. I'll check when I'm back in the office.

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 7:42:51 PM UTC-5, Rich S wrote:

Confirmed. I finally got my copy back from the person I loaned it to. On the back cover is his bio:

- - - - - Thomas M. Frederiksen is a linear IC design engineer with National Semiconductor Corporation, Santa Clara, California. Upon earning his BSEE degree from California State Polytechnic University at San Luis Obispo, he started his professional career as a development engineer with the Motorola Systems Develop ment Laboratory. Subsequently he worked with the Microelectronics Group at Hughes Semiconductor Division and later became senior project engineer at Motorola Semiconductor Products Division. In 1971 Mr. Frederiksen joined his present firm where he developed custom ICs and standard single-supply building block circuits for automotive and industrial applications. Today he acts as technical consultant to National's Linear Design group and enjoys traveling throughout the world as a leading participant in the company's CMOS and Linear seminars. Mr. Frederiksen holds more than 40 patents on Iinear ICs and devices, and is a frequent contributor to professional Iiterature. In 1977 he received the International Solid State Circuits Conference Best Paper Award. He also designed the Quad Amps LM3900, LM324, and LM339. The LM324 is today's most popular Op Amp. His first book, Intuitive IC Electronics (McGraw-Hill, 1982), has been followed by Intuitive IC Op Amps and Intuitive IC CMOS Evolution. All are part of National's Semiconductor Technology Series. Mr. Frederiksen is currently working on a four book series on the basics of Iinear and digital electronics which he expects to complete in Iate 1984.

- - - - -

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Russell, R. W., & Frederiksen, T. M. (1972). Automotive and industrial elec tronic building blocks. IEEE Journal of Solid-State Circuits, 7(6), 446? ??454 describes the LM324 design in some detail.

Manuscript received April 14, 1972; revised July 6, 1972

They also acknowledge as follows: The authors wish to credit J. E. Solomon for providing the new gm reduction technique, E. L. Long for contributing to the design of the IC NPN power t ransistor with excellent safe operating area, D. Culmer for assisting in ci rcuit development and evaluation, and finally B. Owens and A. Smith for the IC layout design.

Jung mentions both authors in his "Op Amp Applications Handbook".

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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ectronic building blocks. IEEE Journal of Solid-State Circuits, 7(6), 446 ?454 describes the LM324 design in some detail.

on technique, E. L. Long for contributing to the design of the IC NPN power transistor with excellent safe operating area, D. Culmer for assisting in circuit development and evaluation, and finally B. Owens and A. Smith for t he IC layout design.

That paper is well worth a read. The LM339 is also discussed (essentially t he same front end as the LM324).. neither by name. They used mutant multi-c ollector transistors to reduce gm to permit a much smaller compensation cap (5pF rather than 30-50 pF, thus saving ~1000-1800 mil^2 per die. They also discuss the bias block and startup (both of which are hidden in the simpli fied schematic shown on the datasheet).

The ballasted NPN transistor with a good SOA was used in a third part that I don't recall seeing at the time. Essentially the very simple LM339/LM324 front end with a power stage. And it sounds like they coupled **two** front ends to each output stage (so 4 front ends and two output NPN darlingtons capable of a few hundred mA and driving a large-ish incandescent lamp with the large surge. And it would have been in a DIP-14.

Anyone remember a bipolar part like that? It's much simpler than the later LM311 type parts.

They at least made one run because they have a die photo.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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electronic building blocks. IEEE Journal of Solid-State Circuits, 7(6), 446 ?454 describes the LM324 design in some detail.

tion technique, E. L. Long for contributing to the design of the IC NPN pow er transistor with excellent safe operating area, D. Culmer for assisting i n circuit development and evaluation, and finally B. Owens and A. Smith for the IC layout design.

the same front end as the LM324).. neither by name. They used mutant multi

-collector transistors to reduce gm to permit a much smaller compensation c ap (5pF rather than 30-50 pF, thus saving ~1000-1800 mil^2 per die. They al so discuss the bias block and startup (both of which are hidden in the simp lified schematic shown on the datasheet).

By 'this paper' do you mean the short one by Russel and Frederiksen

(I was able to download a copy.)

George H.

I also found this along the way.

t I don't recall seeing at the time. Essentially the very simple LM339/LM32

4 front end with a power stage. And it sounds like they coupled **two** fro nt ends to each output stage (so 4 front ends and two output NPN darlington s capable of a few hundred mA and driving a large-ish incandescent lamp wit h the large surge. And it would have been in a DIP-14.

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46?454 describes the LM324 design in some detail.

uction technique, E. L. Long for contributing to the design of the IC NPN p ower transistor with excellent safe operating area, D. Culmer for assisting in circuit development and evaluation, and finally B. Owens and A. Smith f or the IC layout design.

ly the same front end as the LM324).. neither by name. They used mutant mul ti-collector transistors to reduce gm to permit a much smaller compensation cap (5pF rather than 30-50 pF, thus saving ~1000-1800 mil^2 per die. They also discuss the bias block and startup (both of which are hidden in the si mplified schematic shown on the datasheet).

The one I have is 9 pages long.

Interesting, will read later.

It's their 1972 Journal of Solid-State Circuits paper. There's a copy on DropBox in the Frederiksen folder.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

Ditto, or Thanks Win.